WP 84 | The Essential 5 Questions before Starting a Group Practice with Amy Dover

Written By James Marland

Starting a group practice is a significant step for any solo practice owner. It's a decision that can expand your reach, increase your revenue, and allow you to help more people. However, it's not a step to be taken lightly. Amy Dover, a seasoned group practice owner and consultant, shared her insights on the essential questions you need to ask yourself before embarking on this journey. Here’s a summary of her advice from the Wise Practice Podcast.

1. Do You Want to Manage People?

Managing people is a critical part of running a group practice. Amy highlighted that this involves more than just overseeing your team’s work. It requires understanding their needs, personalities, and work ethics. Amy shared her experience, noting that each team member brings unique challenges and requires different levels of support. Are you ready to handle these dynamics while maintaining your client load and managing your practice’s growth?

Pros of Managing People:

  • Helping people develop their clinical skills.

  • Watching them grow in their leadership and social interactions.

  • Contributing to their professional and personal growth.

Challenges:

  • Balancing the diverse work ethics and personalities.

  • Setting and maintaining boundaries.

  • Being available to support your team effectively.

2. Do You Want to See Fewer Clients?

As your practice grows, you'll need to reduce your client load to focus on running the business. Amy shared that it took her five years to figure out how to balance client care and business management. Initially, you might still see a lot of clients, but as you hire more therapists, your role will shift more towards leadership and business management.

Considerations:

  • Transitioning from a clinician to a CEO role.

  • Managing the ego shift when fewer clients request to see you personally.

  • Learning to enjoy the business side of your practice.

3. Are You Personally Ready to Be a Group Practice Owner?

Personal readiness is as important as professional readiness. Amy emphasized that group practice ownership can be demanding, especially if you have a family. She shared her struggle with balancing her responsibilities at home and at work. It's essential to set boundaries and manage your time effectively to avoid burnout.

Personal Considerations:

  • Impact on family and personal life.

  • Ability to set and maintain boundaries.

  • Readiness to handle the additional workload and stress.

4. Are You Prepared to Be Lonely?

Owning a group practice can be a lonely endeavor. The boundaries between you and your team change, and you might not be able to discuss certain issues with them. Amy noted that having a support network or community, like the Wise Practice community, can be invaluable in overcoming this loneliness.

Finding Support:

  • Joining professional communities or mastermind groups.

  • Seeking mentorship from experienced practice owners.

  • Building a network of peers who understand your challenges.

5. Do You Trust Your Decision-Making Skills?

Effective decision-making is crucial for a group practice owner. You need to be confident in your ability to make quick, well-informed decisions that will impact your team and your business. Amy stressed the importance of building trust with your team through consistent and thoughtful decision-making.

Key Decision-Making Areas:

  • Financial management and budgeting.

  • Hiring and onboarding new team members.

  • Implementing systems and processes to ensure smooth operations.

Resources Mentioned in the Podcast

  1. Wise Practice Consulting Website: For information on the mastermind group starting in July. Wise Practice Consulting Mastermind Group

  2. Webinars and Workshops: or information on the webinars in June click here. 

    • When to Pull the Plug on Agency Work and Grow your Faith-based Private Practice, Tuesday, June 18, 2024

    • Is It Time To Grow? Should I Start a Group Practice?, Thursday, June 20, 2024

    • Money Leaks in Your Private Practice, Wednesday, June 26, 2024

Grow to a Group Practice

If you're considering starting a group practice and want personalized guidance, consider joining Amy Dover's "Scaling to a Group Practice Mastermind Group." This six-month program offers live Zoom meetings, access to the Wise Practice membership community, and personalized support from Amy. You can find more information and sign up on the Wise Practice Consulting website. Don't miss this opportunity to build a solid foundation for your group practice and avoid common pitfalls.

Starting a group practice is a challenging yet rewarding journey. By asking yourself these essential questions and seeking the right support, you can set yourself and your practice up for success.

Links and Resources


Podcast Production and Show Notes by Course Creation Studio.

  • WP 84 The Essential 5 Questions before Starting a Group Practice with Amy Dover

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    [00:00:00] Speaker: Attention solo practice owners. Do you want to hire therapists for your practice, but feel uncertain of what steps to take? Do you want to stop turning referrals away and want to have a wider reach in your community? Maybe you want to increase your revenue. I'm Amy Dover, Group Practice Owner and WISE Practice Consultant, and if you said yes to any of these questions, I invite you to join me in the Scaling to a Group Practice Mastermind Group beginning in July.

    [00:00:30] Speaker: During this six month mastermind group, you can expect live Zoom meetings every other week, access to the WISePractice membership community, and access to me between meetings, as well as discounts on individual consultation calls while in the group. Head on over to wisepracticeconsulting. com backslash masterminds and sign up.

    [00:00:52] Speaker: If you want to schedule a call with me before joining, you can do that as well. WISePractice community members will receive 100 off per month for the mastermind group. This group is limited to only eight participants and you must sign up by June 21st. So don't delay. Unlock the strategies, support and connections you need to grow and join me and other faith based private practice owners this July so we can thrive together.

    [00:01:19] Speaker 2: Hey, friends, and thanks for hanging out with me on the podcast today. I'm looking forward to you hearing from my girl, Amy Dover. So I want to talk a little bit about Amy before we get going in the episode. As many of you have maybe heard, as she's been watching the show, Wise Practice Consulting is growing because there's only so much of me to go around and I love community.

    [00:02:04] Speaker 2: I love working with people and I love sharing them with you and getting to know you. And so I'm growing the WISe Practice Consulting community. So Amy Dover is my most recent hire as a consultant and she is fabulous. Let's just say when you meet people that you admire, you hire them. Right. Because you want to work with them.

    [00:02:24] Speaker 2: And Amy has so much to offer and not only has been an encouragement strength to me, but also gives me wise advice within my own practice. And so I know she can do that for you too. So Amy has a group practice in enterprise, Alabama. She has around 15 therapists at her practice insurance based. She's had it for like 10 years.

    [00:02:45] Speaker 2: And she's also just has this. Ability to have a mother motherly kind spirit, but also push you when you need to be pushed. And I just love that about her. She'll tell it to you straight and say it with kindness at the same time, she, um, will be doing consulting surrounding starting and growing group practices.

    [00:03:04] Speaker 2: In fact, she's going to be hosting a mastermind group in July. So if you're thinking about starting a group practice, not really sure about the steps to that. She's going to walk you step by step starting. And growing a group practice. That's everything from your foundational pieces to hiring, to a job ad, to how to pay the people, how to market on board, look at your finances, all that good stuff.

    [00:03:27] Speaker 2: Her mastermind group is starting in July. That's going to go for six months. I always say, if you ever want to, Get consulting, get it when you're starting in group practice because it is one of the most important times. I have so many people who have five, seven, ten therapists call me up for consulting and say, why didn't I get a consultant at the beginning?

    [00:03:47] Speaker 2: 'cause they make so many mistakes. 'cause those foundational pieces are so important in starting a group practice. So Amy's gonna be leading that mastermind group and you can get all that information@wisepracticeconsulting.com slash. Masterminds. And I'm looking forward to you getting to know Amy through today's podcast episode and other ways that she's going to be getting involved.

    [00:04:06] Speaker 2: I'm sure you're going to be hearing her voice on the podcast more often moving forward. So let me jump in and introduce you to the amazing Amy Dover.

    [00:04:16] Speaker 3: Hello friends, and thanks for being back here with me on the wise practice podcast. Looking forward to my interview today with Amy Dover. And let me tell you a little bit before her and then about her. And then we're going to jump into the episode and talk about essential questions that you need to ask yourself if you want to start a group practice.

    [00:04:34] Speaker 3: So Amy is a licensed marriage and family therapist, group practice owner and faith based practice consultant. She is located in Enterprise, Alabama, where she manages an insurance based group practice with 15 plus clinicians and two administrators. She's passionate in her desire to help faith based practice owners, focusing on empowering female entrepreneurs to leverage their leadership skills and God given talents to impact their team and community.

    [00:04:58] Speaker 3: She is driven by a vision to help faith based female practice owners create thriving practices that only succeed in business, but also providing meaningful service aligned with their values and beliefs. In her free time, she enjoys spending time with her husband and her two sons, reading, sitting by the pool, and attempting to learn the game of golf.

    [00:05:19] Speaker 3: Amy, thanks for coming on the show today. Thank you for having me. Well, so do you

    [00:05:24] Speaker 4: have a pool? I do. This is South Alabama. Most people have pools. All right. So our next work

    [00:05:31] Speaker 3: retreat will be at your house. We'll do it. We'll set it up. I love I love pools and tell me you started playing golf. Is this new for you?

    [00:05:39] Speaker 4: Or it's new for me. We have, um, our 2 sons are ages 21 and 18. So 1 son is out of the home. And our other son graduates from high school in May, and they have both experienced golf over the last few months and have loved it. And my husband played 20 years ago, we decided that to keep our family together as our children leave the nest, that we needed a, a mutual activity that we could all do and enjoy.

    [00:06:09] Speaker 4: And we decided golf, and I'm really bad at it, but I'm going to get lessons and I'm going to get better. It's going to

    [00:06:17] Speaker 3: be good. I love it. I love it. And gosh, I just feel like the past six months I've been thinking so much more about the importance of hobbies. Like we can just get so into our businesses, having something that you're working on, that's not work.

    [00:06:31] Speaker 4: That's actually another thing that made me seriously consider learning how to play golf because it's gets me outside, gets me moving, keeps me active physically. You're kind of competing against yourself. And I realized probably the end of last year, I don't do anything fun. I don't have any hobbies. When people say, what are you doing your free time?

    [00:06:57] Speaker 4: Read business books, read therapy books. Um, that's it. That's so sad. Oh, well, hey, now you play golf. So now, now I play

    [00:07:08] Speaker 3: golf. I'm not good at it, but I'm going to be. That's right. All right. Great. Well, I'm excited about today's topic because I think a lot of people are like, Oh, I'm going to start a group practice, or that seems to be what people do.

    [00:07:20] Speaker 3: Or I want to make some more money. I should do this. And not everyone is really cut out to be a group practice owner. And so when you brought this topic to my attention, I was like, Oh yeah, we need to talk about what are the things that we need to ask ourselves. Before starting a group practice, so I'm looking forward to that before we kind of dive in though.

    [00:07:38] Speaker 3: I would love for people to get to know you a little better. If you could share a few minutes about you starting your practice, what's your practice like? And then maybe why did you start a group practice?

    [00:07:49] Speaker 4: Okay, um, I have been a therapist for, uh, 21 years. And I can't believe it. I hit 20 years last year and I can't believe it's been that long since I graduated from graduate school.

    [00:08:04] Speaker 4: And then I started my group practice and I opened the doors in January of 2015. it was just me. I started as a solo provider or solo practitioner and was planning to stay that way. Um, but 3 months in. I found myself having so much work that I couldn't, I couldn't keep doing it all on my own. The referrals were just coming in and it was a blessing and I didn't want to say no to referral sources.

    [00:08:34] Speaker 4: And so I talked to my husband and I was like, I think I might need to hire somebody. And he said, well, call your friend so and so that you used to work with and see if she wants to earn some beer money on the side. That's what he called out just some beer money and she doesn't even drink, but that's she and I still have that joke.

    [00:08:54] Speaker 4: Do you remember when you called me 9 years ago to see if I wanted to earn some beer money and that's it really kind of went from there. I didn't honestly, I didn't put a lot of thought into it. It was. It was, um, things were just kind of happening very rapidly and I really did feel like the Lord was opening doors and they were opening very rapidly and I was stepping into them quickly and not giving a lot of thought, not doing a lot of planning and looking into the future to see what this might look like.

    [00:09:27] Speaker 4: And I was just sort of chasing my tail. And the 1st, the 1st, 3 hires that I made. I made in less than a year after I opened, and I remember thinking, Oh, it's time to hire someone else. Oh, it's time to hire someone else. Like, there was just not a whole lot of deep thinking happening.

    [00:09:49] Speaker 3: Wow. Within a year of opening period.

    [00:09:53] Speaker 3: Yes. Wow. I'm like sitting here thinking about my experience. I hired three in a year, but it was not the year I opened. Wow.

    [00:10:01] Speaker 4: Yes. We, we, uh, we, we grew very quickly. And so when I opened in January of 15, I, again, it was my intention to just be solo. And, um, I had left a group practice and it had not been a great experience.

    [00:10:16] Speaker 5: Mm hmm.

    [00:10:17] Speaker 4: And so, yeah, we grew very fast and then, um, I opened my office. Initially in the, um, building of a pediatric group, which was a wonderful place to start a group. And then, um, and they were so wonderful with me and we still do a lot of collaboration to this day. But, uh, after the first two years of being open, I outgrew the space and we moved and we were there for about three years and we outgrew that space.

    [00:10:48] Speaker 4: And, and so we have finally settled nine years later where we are. And We're all housed in the same building and it's great. It's challenging some days, but for the most part, it's It's good, and I've learned a lot along the way, and I really hope to give other people who were thinking of scaling to a group practice just some things to consider and think about while they're making this decision.

    [00:11:12] Speaker 4: Because, um, I did not do these things. I had to kind of do them looking in the rear view and I wish that I had had the foresight at the time to be thinking about these things.

    [00:11:26] Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I don't think you're alone in that. A lot of people start a group practice the way you just said they were maxed out.

    [00:11:34] Speaker 3: They were getting a lot of referrals. They were like, oh, hire my friend. You know, let me just reach out to my friend. Oh, here's somebody else's contract. Let me copy it and use it. And sometimes they don't even review it with an attorney. They just use it. And as you know, yeah, yeah. Okay. You did those things.

    [00:11:50] Speaker 3: Yeah. And those are the people that definitely reach out to me two or three therapists down the line and go, what was I doing? And I'm like, I. So I always now, like, I mean, I think business consulting is always helpful, just like I think therapy is always helpful, but I always say if there's any time ever in your practice that you're going to hire a business consultant, it's when you start a group practice that foundation that you build.

    [00:12:13] Speaker 3: Game changer, you know, and it's great that you still have your 1st person with you because a lot of people lose that 1st person pretty quickly. So maybe God, God had his hand right there for you and

    [00:12:24] Speaker 4: that I say that he's had his hand in it the entire time because I look back and and I think of.

    [00:12:35] Speaker 4: Instances that occurred that, you know, some other practices wouldn't have survived it or, um, you know, they, they wouldn't have been able to overcome the obstacle. But I always say, it's the grace of God. It's the grace of God. And, but I do agree. I wish that I had had. Again, the foresight and even just the knowledge that there were consultants and coaches out there, because I really did things the way that I had always experienced them in group practice.

    [00:13:05] Speaker 4: I knew what I didn't want to do in a group practice in terms of how to treat my team and and how to handle compensation and how to handle client care. And I knew what I didn't want to do. Um. But that was kind of limited. I really, I just didn't have the knowledge to build a really solid business foundation in the beginning.

    [00:13:29] Speaker 4: And. It is all worked out. It's, it's, it's going well, but there was a lot of heartache and a lot of hard lessons learned along the way that, you know, maybe I wouldn't have had to experience if, if I'd had some consulting in the beginning.

    [00:13:44] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. I had the opposite where, um, I hired a coach when I started a group practice.

    [00:13:53] Speaker 3: Cause I knew, and I mean, God was all over that too. Just leading me and guiding me into actually getting coaching and knowing how to do it, but I was like, there's no way I want to do this alone. And I don't know how to hire people. I don't want to mess this up. And it went great. I actually did a mastermind group to help myself start a group practice.

    [00:14:09] Speaker 3: I was in a mastermind group for two years and it was wonderful. But that was also when I started thinking, are there any faith based consultants out there? Like. My consultant did a great job, but there wasn't an integration of faith and it was such a vital part of why I was growing a group practice. So, anyway, that that's the essence of why we're here.

    [00:14:29] Speaker 3: So, anyway, but, but, yeah, I had the opposite experience. It did hire a coach, but let's, let's jump into these questions because I think everybody's kind of on their seats wanting to hear what do I need to ask myself?

    [00:14:41] Speaker 4: Well, I'm glad to ask these questions and help to answer them. Great. So number one, do you want to manage people?

    [00:14:52] Speaker 4: I didn't really, again, being a clinician for a long time, I didn't really think about the ins and outs of if I hire people to come on, to commit to my practice, what needs are they going to have? And how is that going to affect my ability to see clients and to. To meet the needs of a team member and, um, and there are big personalities that, that come with that.

    [00:15:21] Speaker 4: And they're great clinicians, but they have big personalities and, and different work ethics. I've really struggled with some of that because my work ethic is, it's actually a bit ridiculous. Like I could, if I didn't have a family, I could easily fall into the workaholic end of things. And that's not a good thing, but I recognize that about myself.

    [00:15:45] Speaker 4: And. Not everyone works that way in my practice, and I've really had to struggle with, you know, okay, Amy, just because they don't work the way that you do doesn't mean that they don't have a good work ethic and really creating space for people with that and understanding that and. Sometimes my team also can certain ones can be, you know, they can be like that needy client and they could be a needy team member and trying to season my conversations with grace and and be kind but also.

    [00:16:23] Speaker 4: Set and keep my boundaries with them and, um, and love them despite the difficulties that might be going on with them. Um, that's part of managing people too. And it's just something to consider when someone wants to grow, because that is going to be a part of your job as a group practice owner and isn't something that you see yourself doing.

    [00:16:45] Speaker 3: Good question. So when you first asked the question, I was also thinking, does anyone want to manage people? Like, I feel like when I say it to potential people starting to practice, they all kind of, I don't want to manage anybody. So is there some positives to managing?

    [00:17:04] Speaker 4: Definitely. Um, I love 1 of the things I say is we, I am blessed with longevity in my practice.

    [00:17:13] Speaker 4: Um, the, the, I just hired a couple of new people, but before these 2 people, I hire the people who have been with me the least amount of time. Have been therapists who are hitting their, their numbers, their years, 3 and 4, and then I've got people who have been with me 8 and 9 years. And so it's, we have very low turnover, which is such a blessing.

    [00:17:36] Speaker 4: Um, and so there is. So, no matter how long someone stays with with over counseling, I do love the idea that I get to also help people develop. So, managing people, it doesn't have a very positive, I guess, spin to it, but it also means you get to develop people. You get to watch them grow clinically. You get to watch them grow in their leadership skills.

    [00:17:59] Speaker 4: You get to watch them grow even just kind of socially and how they interact with clients, how they interact with other people in the practice and. And no matter how long people stay at Dover, I want them to leave saying I'm better for being at Dover Counseling than I was if I had never been there. So just the people development and all the things that go along with that, allowing people to see, you know, the presence of God in the practice and what that's like.

    [00:18:26] Speaker 4: And you can run a very successful business and do things that kind of look countercultural and that are aligned with your values and your goals and be successful. And People are able to experience that here and that's so yeah, managing people, but there is definitely a bright and positive side to it.

    [00:18:47] Speaker 3: It's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's not really about managing. It's about kind of the investment we make in them. Yes, we get that honor of being a part of their lives and helping them in their career. But personally, I mean, the challenges they face, they're going to come to us as their boss and say, Hey, this thing is happening in my family, or this person just died, or I don't know how to handle this client because of my own trauma or whatever.

    [00:19:11] Speaker 3: And we get to develop them and grow them. And I mean, this becomes, I don't really know if I'm just gonna say it, but it makes me think about discipleship. I mean, we really kind of are discipling them. And

    [00:19:25] Speaker 4: even if they do not share. My belief system, I'm still showing them Christ. And if someone does come to me and say, Hey, I'm, I'm struggling physically.

    [00:19:37] Speaker 4: I've got some medical issues and I'm not sure how that's going to affect my ability to see this number of clients that that, um, contracted to see or whatever and like, well, okay. The most important thing is your, is your health. So let's talk about. Let's talk about how we can amend things and make sure that you're getting your health taken care of while you also are able to make a living and Dover County is going to step in in this way to support you.

    [00:20:02] Speaker 4: And, and unfortunately, people don't typically get that kind of care and concern in other places. And

    [00:20:09] Speaker 5: so,

    [00:20:10] Speaker 4: yeah, as a group practice owner, you do have the ability to do that with your, with your team.

    [00:20:15] Speaker 3: What a beautiful thing.

    [00:20:16] Speaker 4: Yeah. All right.

    [00:21:14] Speaker 3: What's your second

    [00:21:15] Speaker 4: question

    [00:21:15] Speaker 3: there?

    [00:21:17] Speaker 4: Do you want to see fewer clients?

    [00:21:19] Speaker 4: Because as you grow, um, you're going to have to cut back on how many clients you see and really spend more time working on your business rather than in your business. And it took me 5 years to figure that out. Okay, I was still seeing. Up until the end of 2019, I was still seeing, um, probably around 25 clients a week, running the business, running the practice.

    [00:21:50] Speaker 4: And at that time, I probably had 10 clinicians. Don't even

    [00:21:54] Speaker 3: you want to ask me how I do it all 25 clients and 10 therapists.

    [00:21:59] Speaker 4: Wow. It was, it was awful. It was, it was so bad. And I look back at, at some of my, okay, so I have a bit of an OCD streak and I keep some of my calendars from, from years ago,

    [00:22:13] Speaker 5: I'll

    [00:22:13] Speaker 4: look back at them and I'll see what my schedule looked like.

    [00:22:16] Speaker 4: And it just blows my mind. But, but it's, it was hard for me to let go of seeing the clients because. I've always been a clinician. That's just what I did. And it was such a part of who I was. And then also, when I decided to, okay, I'm going to lean in to the CEO owner thing. And I'm going to, I'm going to really work on my leadership skills.

    [00:22:40] Speaker 4: And I'm really going to work on my business skills. And I'm going to start to let go of my clients. I really had to work on my ego because Fewer people were calling and requesting to see me. They were requesting to see my team members, which is absolutely the goal, but My ego didn't like it and I really had to get over myself.

    [00:23:06] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's, that is like classic Enneagram too, right there.

    [00:23:10] Speaker 4: And, and that's what I am. Yeah. Um, I'm definitely that. And, but you know, I, I, Because I knew I was doing what, what the Lord was calling me to do, and I wanted to be obedient to him. And more than anything, I really wanted to be available to my team and my admin was telling me, Amy, when you see clients all day, and your door is shut, the other therapists, they, they can't get to you and they have questions that I can't answer.

    [00:23:39] Speaker 4: They need you. And that really hit me too. Like, how can I be the leader? I want to be if I'm not available to my team. And so I really needed to. Have a conversation with myself and my ego and and that's really led me really to where I am now. It's taken several years, but, um, I really see, I don't typically see more than 5 clients a week right now, just because the team is so large and I'm doing other things and and I want to support them.

    [00:24:07] Speaker 4: And, um, I just I can't I can't see that many clients anymore. And it's it's. The Lord has opened other doors for me. That's right. That's right.

    [00:24:20] Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I definitely agree with you in this point. And, you know, if anyone's thinking about starting a group practice, and they kind of flinch at this idea of seeing less clients don't freak out yet, because that's when you get bigger, you know, when you have your first few hires, you're still seeing just as many clients because you're bringing in the majority of the income.

    [00:24:38] Speaker 4: Yeah, it was really, you know. So I opened in 15 and I started to intentionally start decreasing my clients in 2019. So four years, but up until, I mean, the first two to three years, my billing was still crucial to the practice. You know, I did have to carry both of those hats of owner and full time biller because the practice needed it.

    [00:25:01] Speaker 4: And I mean, I could have done it sooner than I did, but Yeah, when you start hitting the higher numbers of therapists in your practice, you're going to have to start decreasing your clients.

    [00:25:15] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, this is something I feel like I have to tell business owners a lot because I see a lot of them getting a lot of education in clinical work.

    [00:25:24] Speaker 3: Not that that's bad. It's like, I'm going to go do this training in this training. And I'm like, I mean, it's great if you want to do those trainings, but if you want to start a group practice, they don't really go together. If you want your group practice to be large, because you can't really see a lot of clients.

    [00:25:38] Speaker 3: Like, I would encourage you to take business classes. And, you know, go to retreats and go to conferences because then you're going to empower yourself to run a better practice. Then your therapists are going to get those trainings and do that clinical work because only you can run the business.

    [00:25:54] Speaker 4: That is so true.

    [00:25:56] Speaker 4: And I found myself. You know, purposely, okay, I really want to read this book on couples work. I really want to do this Gottman training, but I really need to know how to be a better leader in this area, or I really need to get some encouragement and some more understanding of how to read a profit and loss statement, or, you know, how to understand my cash flow.

    [00:26:21] Speaker 4: So let me, I started to have to step away from the clinical trainings. And so even now, while my, my team talks about, yeah, I'm, I'm taking my 1st part of EMDR next weekend, or I'm learning more about IFS. I'm sitting there going, oh, I really want to learn that too for this season. That's not what I need to be putting my energy and my time into.

    [00:26:47] Speaker 4: I need to be focused more on. You know, I need to learn more about how to run my numbers in this way. I need to learn more about the hiring process and how to find good team members and kind of thinking outside of the box with my business. And so I have to kind of put my clinical stuff that I want to learn over here to the side.

    [00:27:06] Speaker 4: And that's a struggle too. Yeah, I feel it. I feel it. All right. Number three. What's the third question? Are you personally ready to be a group practice owner? And one of my favorite stories is. So this was in the late summer of 2014. I have a mentor. His name is Tim and he supervised me for my Alabama license and he has been a therapist for over 40 years and he's been in private practice for over 30 and he knows some stuff and when he finished supervising me, I asked him to stay on and I'll remain in contact with me because I wanted him to mentor me and he's been wonderful.

    [00:27:55] Speaker 4: When I was talking to him in the end of 2014 about, you know, I feel like this is what I'm being led to do. And I never wanted to have my own private practice. By the way, there's never anything in my head. I like the idea of someone working. At, you know, above me to kind of give me that that buffer legally and ethically, and I never really wanted the responsibility of being a practice owner, but we were talking about it and I told him I really.

    [00:28:21] Speaker 4: I really feel this. And, and he said, Amy, clinically, you are ready. You are going to be fine in private practice, personally, you're going to struggle. And I was like, what are you talking about? I'm going to struggle personally. And he said, you have two young children and it's, it's going to be hard because you're going to feel the pool of the practice with the pool of your children.

    [00:28:46] Speaker 4: And he could have been a prophet because that's exactly what I felt. And the group practice ownership is hard, period, but I do think as a mother, it has been particularly difficult at times just because I do feel like there have been seasons where maybe it's pulled me from my children when they were younger in particular.

    [00:29:09] Speaker 4: In particular, it's pulled me away from the, um, I've been late to some of their ball games and, you know, I, I could make it to some school functions and nothing that they're going to carry into their future and talk about how horrible their childhood was because their mother missed their functions. But it still leaves me with.

    [00:29:28] Speaker 4: I could have done some things differently, you know, I could have set some better boundaries and, but, but I. I didn't know, and he was right when he said that I would struggle personally. There was also a time when my, my older son was probably a 10th grade in high school and my younger son was in sixth grade.

    [00:29:48] Speaker 4: And I was at home one evening and just sitting in the living room with my husband watching TV and it was like maybe five 30 in the evening. And he walked by and he said, Whoa, mom, you're home. I was like, yeah, I'm home. It's after work. And he goes, No, mom, usually you're not home until after seven and that, oh, it was like a knife to my heart and I, I took a step back and recognized I was still working 12 hour days, Monday through Thursdays.

    [00:30:20] Speaker 4: I was typically working until noon on Fridays, and, you know, my husband was the 1 making sure dinner got on the table and all those things were happening, but I had no idea I was doing all that. Part of it was because I had done it for so long. In the prior practice that I worked at, but I had carried that into my own practice and that's when I talk to people about that, that story, I call it, it was my son's unintentional intervention for my overwork and.

    [00:30:52] Speaker 4: Because that that hit me and I stepped back and said, okay, I definitely need to do some things differently. And I, that's definitely just 1 of those questions that people need to be aware of again before they while they're thinking about scaling. Um, are you personally ready? Because it will require a lot from you.

    [00:31:10] Speaker 5: Yeah,

    [00:31:12] Speaker 3: I appreciate you sharing those stories. I think a lot of us can relate to those and I can think of my own stories of my children confronting me and me being like, you know, and I, a lot of people when they start the group practice, I feel like I say to them, hey, get ready. It's a lot of work. You're going to have to work really hard and put in extra hours.

    [00:31:30] Speaker 3: You're going to have to hustle and not that we want to create that kind of culture. But it's just reality if you want to do this, but it's off. You're remembering not only the work you're doing because you're doing great work. You're hiring therapists, investing in them. You have greater impact in your community, but then you get down the road.

    [00:31:46] Speaker 3: You know, Amy, we were talking right before we got on here and I was like, yeah, the consulting business is where I spend a lot of my time. The group practice. It's a, it's a machine. Of course, I say that now and something's going to happen today, but it's like it rolls. Like, if I'm gone, it's fine. You know, it's going to roll and I have, you know, 15 therapists.

    [00:32:05] Speaker 3: So it's, it's nice, you know, I can leave and I can do the things I want to do. If my kid has something, I don't have to be stressed. I have to go to work.

    [00:32:13] Speaker 5: Yes, you know,

    [00:32:13] Speaker 3: the same way that I did when you're talking about it. So I think just kind of remembering. Yeah, it's a little hard. You might miss some things at that moment.

    [00:32:21] Speaker 3: Yeah. But in the long run, you're gonna be more available. You're gonna be able to go on a vacation and not worry about, oh, did I make money seeing clients? Yes, that part's good. It's it's really that. I kind of feel like starting a group practice is hiring people. That basically employ you, like, I feel like I work for my team, right?

    [00:32:42] Speaker 3: So I take a little bit of profit from all the clients. They see that I can help them have clients. I can help serve them when they have a difficult case. I

    [00:32:49] Speaker 4: agree that they agree with that and and you're right in the beginning years can be. I use the word hustle, too, and and I agree with you. I don't I don't want there to be a culture of that.

    [00:33:03] Speaker 4: Um, but there are seasons of it when you're when you're growing and scaling. Um, but my group practice is also that way. I can step. I can step away for 2 weeks and everything run fine. And, you know, when I have to be out for. You know, family member with medical reasons. I can do it. I don't have to worry about anything and they don't even call me because they know they know what I would decide on those things anyway.

    [00:33:31] Speaker 4: And I can take an afternoon to go play golf with my kids and I have to worry at the places falling down. And that is that is the blessing that comes over time. And when you have. The stable foundation in place that's going to support that, which definitely goes back to the consulting and the coaching and making sure that you have that you're building things from a solid foundation from the get go.

    [00:33:55] Speaker 3: Yeah.

    [00:33:56] Speaker 4: All right. Question four. Are you prepared to be lonely? Lonely? Yes. And I was not. Um, so, you know, you said earlier, you know, you hire your friends, your first hire, sometimes your friend. And I did that. Um, my first two hires were friends. And when I say friends, I don't mean like people I would hang out with a lot.

    [00:34:22] Speaker 4: They were colleagues I had worked with in other places and that I had. Been in relationship for a long time, and I knew were like minded, and I could trust them to come on board and but it definitely shifts the boundaries. And I did not understand that really. Well, in the beginning, and the more I've grown, the more the practice is grown.

    [00:34:45] Speaker 4: I can definitely tell that, you know, I, I can't talk to them about things that. I would love to have someone's ear about I can't really process things about the practice or about other people in the practice with them, because that's an appropriate and and even. Even just things like spending time together outside of the practice, I have to be very careful about.

    [00:35:09] Speaker 4: I have to maintain those boundaries. And I did not recognize that that loneliness would be a part of that. You hear the phrase, it's lonely at the top, and it really can be. And when I got to the end of 2023, it was like last fall, I was talking to my husband and I said, I don't really have any friends. I don't really have anybody that.

    [00:35:34] Speaker 4: You know, colleagues that I could really talk to some of these things about and even friends, you can only talk so much about your group practice. They're only going to understand so much and. And my mentors, I've got 2 mentors, I mentioned. Tim earlier, but I have another 1 as well, but they could really only.

    [00:35:55] Speaker 4: You know, process so much because they had never they had never scaled a practice to the size of mine and. I just realized I needed community because I was just. I was just really lonely and that's actually how I found wise practice community and, um, and it's been wonderful. Just knowing that there are other particularly faith based practice owners out there because that makes me certainly different in my community as well.

    [00:36:22] Speaker 4: Um, no, we, we do not see just strictly. But we're not strictly Christian counseling. We see, we see everything and anyone and, but I do have a reputation in the community for, you know, Amy's a Christian. Amy doesn't do things like that. Someone told me a couple of years ago when she interviewed to come on board with me.

    [00:36:43] Speaker 4: Now, would you have a reputation for being, um, you know, kind of strict and wanting to dot your I's and cross your T's? I was like, well, I'm totally fine with that reputation. I like having that reputation. Thank you for sharing that with me. And so I like that. And I like that. People know that that I rely on my faith because that's also part of filtering out who might be interested in coming on board with me, but it, you know, it's lonely too.

    [00:37:12] Speaker 4: And so we're already doing, we're already having a group practice. And then on top of that, we're doing everything through our faith lens and that even in my community. practice owners, colleagues, um, who, you know, we're, we're on, we're amicable, but it's not, they're not going to come to me to talk about things and I'm not going to go to them.

    [00:37:35] Speaker 4: So, um, it really narrows down the trusted people that I want in my circle as a group practice owner, speaking into me and speaking into, to how I do things. So wise practice, when I found it, it was It was a blessing. It has continued to be a blessing.

    [00:37:53] Speaker 3: Well, thank you for sharing that. And that's the whole reason it was created because it can get lonely.

    [00:38:00] Speaker 3: All right.

    [00:38:00] Speaker 4: What's your last question there? Last question. Do you trust your decision making skills? Um, things happen really fast in a group practice. And like you said, we can, we can step out for two weeks and It's still run. It's not going to collapse without us, but there are weeks where things just seem to happen very rapidly and things that come out of nowhere when you have to make a quick decision, or you need to step back and really consider things and your ability to to kind of process the decision to look at the options and then settle on a decision and stick with it.

    [00:38:41] Speaker 4: And present it to your team is a big deal, because that's going to that's going to give them trust in you. That's going to show them that that you're not just impulsive and kind of flying by the seat of your pants and that you, you very much are. Focused on the running of the practice and the longevity of the practice and you care about them.

    [00:39:01] Speaker 4: And that has probably been. Probably 1 of the biggest things I think that people have come to me and given me feedback on, you know, Amy, I know that you don't make willy nilly decisions. You're putting this in place. And honestly, I don't like it, but I'm going to do it and I'm not going to balk it because I trust you and I trust your decisions.

    [00:39:24] Speaker 4: You've never steered the practice in the wrong direction and, and we're in is going to be good. Um, and that's that's a huge piece of it. Just building trust with your team, because a lot of therapists who have come to me have come from places that did not treat them. Well, they were kind of used and abused.

    [00:39:43] Speaker 4: A lot of them came out of community mental health facilities, where you have a caseload of, you know, 85 people you're supposed to see every week. And then they come here and they have to learn to trust me. They, I mean, I even say they have to learn to trust my voice. They have to learn to trust my decisions.

    [00:40:01] Speaker 4: They have to learn to trust that what I'm saying is actually going to be followed through on and and it takes some time to do that. So, your ability to make good decisions is important as well as. your decisions and how you manage your finances. You know, can you manage a large budget? Can you have hard money conversations with therapists who come to you and want more or who you feel entitled to make more?

    [00:40:26] Speaker 4: Um, can you make the decisions and put the systems in place to make sure that your clients pay how they're supposed to? Can you tell people no when you need to? And again, those are all things that I've learned. Over the last 9 years, but being able to make good decisions, sometimes make them quickly follow through with them is.

    [00:40:49] Speaker 4: I think crucial and great practice ownership

    [00:40:53] Speaker 3: totally agree.

    [00:40:54] Speaker 4: So, like, I'm making decisions every day, all the time, every day, sometimes all the time. Yes. Yeah, I've heard I've heard the phrase. Um, oh, gosh, how's it go decision fatigue. Yep. I did a whole webinar on that a few years ago. Okay. Well, it is a real thing.

    [00:41:12] Speaker 4: And some days I go home and I'm like, I just, you know, I don't, I don't care what we have for dinner. You can put oatmeal in front of me and I'm going to eat it. I just don't want to choose anything else for the rest of the day.

    [00:41:22] Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh, that's exactly what I say to my husband.

    [00:41:24] Speaker 4: Yeah.

    [00:41:26] Speaker 3: So, Amy, let's say somebody's listening and they're thinking, okay, I've answered these questions, I've thought through this, and I am interested in starting a group practice, but they don't know what to do.

    [00:41:37] Speaker 3: What would you kind of can you point them in a direction, maybe for some coaching or getting some assistance in this? Well, I

    [00:41:44] Speaker 4: would I would love it. If they would reach out. I would certainly love to to work with them. And I do. I am getting a mastermind group started up in July of this year. It's going to start July 11th and it's going to run for 6 months.

    [00:41:58] Speaker 4: So, July 11th through December, and there's lots of good information about it on the website, WisePracticeConsulting. com, and there's an application you can fill out if you're interested in, um, getting a consult for the group. I would love for people to to reach out about that because I would love to walk with people.

    [00:42:18] Speaker 4: As they're making these decisions about group practice, it's, um, 495 a month for 6 months, but wise practice members get 100 off. So it will be 395 a month for them. And I would love to see some of my wise practice colleagues join the group with me would love to walk with them and support them and also challenge them and all the things that we need when we're growing.

    [00:42:42] Speaker 4: A

    [00:42:42] Speaker 3: group, so yeah, yeah, that's so great. I know that we kind of work together when we were putting the mastermind group and just thinking about the needs of the community. Um, so just to kind of help emphasize this part, there's me a lot of content driven stuff like, yes, and it really be helping them figure out their branding their ideal hire.

    [00:43:01] Speaker 3: How do you hire? How do you post a job? And then some of those onboarding, like, how do you onboard? How do you figure out pay structures? W2, 1099. I would say 1 of the biggest mistakes I see down the road is people who either took on too much space

    [00:43:16] Speaker 5: early on.

    [00:43:17] Speaker 3: Or they hired inappropriately financially, they paid too much, and then they're not making anything as a practice center.

    [00:43:24] Speaker 3: And there's just no point in starting a group practice. If you make less than you did as a solo practice center, and you gave yourself more work. You know, I think, you know, you're going to be able to walk and sit with people in that place of here's how you actually do this. And here's how you onboard and market and run your numbers to make sure it's all functioning.

    [00:43:40] Speaker 3: And so within 6 months, they're going to get all the things they need. To have what 2 people hired, I'm guessing by the end of a 6 month period, is that kind of the

    [00:43:48] Speaker 4: goal? That's the goal. Yep. If you want to hire on board 1 to 2 clinicians by the end of that 6 month period. Then this is definitely the group you want to do and it's great content.

    [00:44:00] Speaker 4: Great information. That'll be at your fingertips. Lots of good. Really just good systems and documentation of paperwork that we have already created that they will have access to and. And also you'll, you know, I'm, I'm definitely going to help people understand. Yeah, I did it this way and you don't want to do it this way you want to do it.

    [00:44:24] Speaker 4: That's right. That's right. Gordon has the, uh, the intro to his podcast talks about. I made a lot of mistakes along the way, and I want to help you not make those mistakes. And that's, that's where I am with this too. You can, you can get to the level of private practice ownership that you want to get to, but let's try to make the right decisions as much as possible along the way and can help people do that.

    [00:44:48] Speaker 4: Yeah,

    [00:44:49] Speaker 3: yeah, so make sure that you had to last practice consulting, check out the mastermind groups that we have going on. Um, Amy will be doing those pre consulting calls. So she'll be able to jump on a call with you at no charge, just to figure out if this is the best fit for you kind of running through some of these questions that she's asking, answering your questions about what it really is like having a group practice.

    [00:45:09] Speaker 3: So this episode will be coming out and when it drops. So you'll be able to go to the website and fill out that application. Once you fill out the application, Amy will be in touch with you with a link to schedule a call with her. Now I know that especially you're a solo practice and I want to start a group.

    [00:45:24] Speaker 3: You hear 495 and you kind of freak out. Cause you're like, Oh my gosh, that's a lot. Now, let me just also say this. The investment that you make in starting a group practice will save you so much money and make you money in the long run by not making the mistakes to save money and by hiring and growing, you will make that back.

    [00:45:42] Speaker 3: And I always share this story because I thought it was so powerful. I helped a girl start her group practice and exactly a year later, she had four, no, exactly a year later, she had a couple of therapists working for her, but she said that her revenue was four times. What it was a year prior 4 times, which is way more than 495 a month.

    [00:46:02] Speaker 3: Like, she was making so much more just by making that investment. And so just want to encourage people that if you want to start a group practice, do it the right way. A mastermind group is a cost efficient way to do it without doing individual consulting and getting all the information. So please head to the website, fill an application.

    [00:46:19] Speaker 3: Amy will jump on a free call with you just to chat with you about. About fit and all that kind of stuff, um, but also Amy does individual coaching. If there's something you're interested in and you're thinking, oh, I don't want to be in a group. I want a little bit more of an individualized plan. She can offer that for you too.

    [00:46:34] Speaker 3: And even if you're not starting a group practice, maybe you're scaling your practice. Uh, Amy's my group practice guru. So, so glad that you're here. Thank you for having me. I enjoyed it. All right. Well, thanks for being on the show and we look forward to hearing from you guys. And I appreciate you listening today.

    [00:47:11] Whitney Owens: Special thanks to Marty Altman for the music in this podcast. The Wise Practice Podcast is part of the Sitecraft Podcast Network, a collaboration of independent podcasters focused on helping people live more meaningful and productive lives. To learn more about the other amazing podcasts in the network, head on over to sitecraftnetwork.

    [00:47:31] Whitney Owens: com. The Wise Practice Podcast represents the opinions of Whitney Owens and her guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only, and the content should not be taken as legal advice. If you have legal questions, please consult an attorney.

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James Marland
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