WP 85 | How to Network with Pastors with Cameisha Brewer

Written By James Marland

Building Successful Relationships with Churches as a Therapist: Insights from Cameisha Brewer

Cameisha Brewer is passionate about helping people prioritize their mental health by aligning their thoughts with their goals. As a seasoned entrepreneur in the mental health space, she now consults and coaches therapists. Cameisha shares her invaluable insights on how therapists can form meaningful relationships with churches to benefit both parties and ultimately serve the community better.

Understanding the Church Community

One of the first steps is understanding the church you're interested in partnering with. As Cameisha notes:"To get in the door, I recommend you go to the church and just attend services. To get a feel for what they do, what they teach, what the doctrine is, and what type of ministries are available for outreach." Before approaching pastors or church leaders, it’s crucial to have a genuine interest in understanding their community and dynamics.

Building Relationships

It's essential to approach these interactions with a genuine intent to serve rather than to sell: "Once you have coffee, you follow up, I recommend every 30 days just to check in and not say, hey, y'all haven't sent me referrals. Not that, but just checking to say, hey, how are things going? Do you guys need any resources?" Cameisha stresses the importance of ongoing engagement and visibility within the church community.

Crafting the Right Conversation

When you do get the opportunity to talk with a pastor, listening should be your priority. Cameisha explains: "I think first you need to listen. Right? It almost becomes a therapy session, not to treat the pastor, but to do the assessment to understand the pastor's heart and vision and needs." Understanding the unique needs and vision of the church can position you as a valuable resource.

Handling Dual Relationships

Navigating dual relationships is a common concern for therapists. Cameisha shares her approach: "I don't see people from the church because I want to have a place to go and in my career... Anything I need spiritually or any prayer requests I have for my family. I don't want clients to know that." It's important to decide whether you want to see clients from your home church or find a safe space for your spiritual needs.

Persisting Through Challenges

Therapists often face challenges when trying to build these relationships, especially if a church already has a counseling center. Cameisha's advice? "Don't be intimidated if they already have an established counseling center, you can still be a part of it. You just need to ask questions and see how you can be a part of it." Persistence and finding your unique value proposition can open doors even in seemingly closed environments.

Call to Action

Cameisha Brewer’s insights offer a practical roadmap for therapists looking to collaborate with churches. For those interested in delving deeper into strategies for building and scaling a successful practice, Cameisha’s new book, **The CEO Clinician: How to Set Up, Structure, Market, and Scale a Solo Private Practice in 60 Days**, is a must-read. The book is specially designed for new therapists and comes with exclusive resources, podcast episodes, and workbooks to support your journey.
Grab your copy today and start transforming your private practice!

Resources

  1. The CEO Clinician, is available for purchase at this link

  2. The 3 biggest mistakes to avoid In Private Practice: Freebie! 

  3. Cameisha Brewer Consulting: Home of The CEO Clinician

  4. IG: @cameishabrewer 

  5. Facebook & Youtube: @cbrewerconsulting

  6. Wise Practice Consulting Website: For information on the mastermind group starting in July. Wise Practice Consulting Mastermind Group

  7. Webinars and Workshops: or information on the webinars in June click here. 

    • When to Pull the Plug on Agency Work and Grow your Faith-based Private Practice, Tuesday, June 18, 2024

    • Is It Time To Grow? Should I Start a Group Practice?, Thursday, June 20, 2024

    • Money Leaks in Your Private Practice, Wednesday, June 26, 2024

Grow to a Group Practice

If you're considering starting a group practice and want personalized guidance, consider joining Amy Dover's "Scaling to a Group Practice Mastermind Group." This six-month program offers live Zoom meetings, access to the Wise Practice membership community, and personalized support from Amy. You can find more information and sign up on the Wise Practice Consulting website. Don't miss this opportunity to build a solid foundation for your group practice and avoid common pitfalls.

Starting a group practice is a challenging yet rewarding journey. By asking yourself these essential questions and seeking the right support, you can set yourself and your practice up for success.

Links and Resources

  • WP 85 How to Network with Pastors with Cameisha Brewer

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    [00:01:22] Whitney Owens: Hi, I'm Whitney Owens. I'm a group practice owner and faith based practice consultant. And I'm here to tell you that you can have it all. Want to grow your practice? Want to grow your faith? Want to enjoy your life outside of work?

    [00:01:36] Whitney Owens: You've come to the right place. Each week on the Wise Practice Podcast, I will give you the action steps to have a successful faith based practice while also having a good time. Now let's get started.

    [00:06:15] Whitney Owens: Today on the wise practice podcast, I have my new friend, Kamisha Brewer. She is a therapist, speaker, and author passionate about helping people prioritize their mental health through teaching them how to build a life that they love by shifting their thoughts into alignment with goals. She has a powerful people who can be who they are mentally healthy and believes that it's her life's purpose to equip and train leaders on how to mentally do business.

    [00:06:40] Whitney Owens: Including therapists after more than 10 years as an entrepreneur in the mental health space. She's now a consultant and business coach for therapists. Thanks for coming on the show today. Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited about our conversation. Yeah, me too. Me too. And I was on your show recently.

    [00:06:55] Whitney Owens: I bet that's going to come out soon. So if anyone wants to go check that out, it's the CEO clinician, right? Yes, it is. Great. Awesome. Wonderful. Well, why don't you 1st, kind of share a little bit about yourself, your background, where you're from, just so people can get to know you.

    [00:07:09] Cameisha Brewer: Yeah. So I am from, let me back up.

    [00:07:13] Cameisha Brewer: I'm from a small town in Arkansas called Ken said, I currently live in the Little Rock area. So don't try to Google a small town. You'll never find it. It's like, 25, it's like, 2500 people. So I get to, um. Do what I love every single day, and it is incredible. So I'm full time, private practice. Now I've been full time for the last 4 years.

    [00:07:31] Cameisha Brewer: Just published my 2nd book called the CEO clinician. The 1st book is called thought life confessions and it's inner conversations of anxious, successful women and I wrote it because my practice was full and I had really good marketing up front. And so, um. I didn't have any other resources and so I was turning people away and I wanted to be able to give these women with anxiety, something, even though they couldn't have me one on one for session.

    [00:07:52] Cameisha Brewer: So that's why I wrote the first book. And that's been amazing. I get a chance to do podcast interviews like these out of speaking engagements for churches and businesses and corporations and nonprofits, um, married, got a bonus baby. And I just love my life. It's so, it's so simple and easy and everything.

    [00:08:11] Cameisha Brewer: I hoped it would be working in the field of mental health. So now I'm on a mission to help as many therapists as possible, create that type of lifestyle that they want.

    [00:08:20] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I started laughing when you said bonus baby. Yeah, it happens. Um, but what a gift. And so, okay, along with all the work you're doing, especially the women entrepreneurs.

    [00:08:33] Whitney Owens: I just love that. You also have a faith based background, correct?

    [00:08:36] Cameisha Brewer: Yeah, yeah. So I'm a pastor's kid. So faith based from the very beginning, I watched my parents do pastoral counseling at home for years. Didn't know what it was as a small child, but I knew that what they were doing were different. And my mom, she was, she was an educator.

    [00:08:51] Cameisha Brewer: She became an assistant principal, my dad's military. So we were always around people and building relationships. And even when they retired, they started businesses. But they were speaking and traveling, but we had families at our house on a regular basis at the kitchen table for pastoral counseling. My parents, I went to seminary and everything, but it was just interesting to me.

    [00:09:10] Cameisha Brewer: Like, why we saw certain families more than what we saw other families as far as frequency. I'm like, well, what happened? Did they implement it? Did they. Do what y'all were teaching them. Why don't we see them anymore? And then we had some people that were there every week who just became a part of our extended family, because that's what they need.

    [00:09:26] Cameisha Brewer: And we were a part of their community. So, because of that, I ended up going to a Christian university, um, studied psychology, minored in youth and family ministry because I had to take Bible classes anyway, it just made sense. But I wanted to figure out like, what is the integration. Between mental health and ministry and how can we bring more mental health conversations into the church and train the people who are providing ministry, even if they don't have a formal mental health background.

    [00:09:52] Cameisha Brewer: So that's been my life from the very beginning. And I love it.

    [00:09:57] Whitney Owens: Thank you for sharing that. I love how all it all comes together. Right. And then just the way that you're living life with people, that's so much what our faith is about.

    [00:10:06] Cameisha Brewer: Yeah.

    [00:10:06] Whitney Owens: Yeah. All right. And so now you are outside or you're in little rock right outside little rocket sounds like, and you have your own private practice.

    [00:10:16] Whitney Owens: And you have a special ability to really connect with pastors and churches because of your background, I'm guessing. Um, so I'd love to let's dive into that because I get that question a lot from practice owners. How do I. Get pastors to acknowledge me to refer to me, and maybe we could start with, how do you really get in the door?

    [00:10:35] Whitney Owens: Because a lot of people will say to me, I reach out. I don't know how to get in the door. They already have people to refer to, or they already have a counseling center. Do you have anything to say for that?

    [00:10:44] Cameisha Brewer: Yeah, I think the get in the door part is more physical like you to get in the door. I recommend you go to the church and just attend services.

    [00:10:53] Cameisha Brewer: To get a feel for what they do, what they teach, what the doctrine is, what classes are available, what type of ministries are available for outreach, what classes for kids, like getting an assessment of the church before you start talking about, you know, Hey, this is me. This is what I can do. A lot of churches.

    [00:11:11] Cameisha Brewer: They're not even interested in that because they don't know you. They haven't seen you at services. Like you haven't, you haven't donated, like you didn't give in the offering, like those kinds of touch points. All of that matters. Two churches, large and small, and so I think because I'm a pastor's kid, of course, my sister also married a pastor.

    [00:11:27] Cameisha Brewer: So we just, you know, live and breathe ministry, but I've heard the private conversations of pastors and how they have to make decisions about the type of people they allow to come to their churches and the type of people that they refer people from the congregation to like, they can't just say, oh, well, we got a random phone call from a random therapist and we're going to just send you to them for therapy.

    [00:11:46] Cameisha Brewer: For therapy, that's not that's not how it works because they are protective and I think they should be as a good shepherd of the flock kind of thing. And so you have to get to know them. So, getting in the door, I think it 1st starts with just getting in the door and going and sitting and asking questions and learning and being involved before you start talking about you and your

    [00:12:06] Whitney Owens: services.

    [00:12:07] Whitney Owens: I appreciate that. You know, I hadn't thought of it. Wipe that way. So I love that. So let's say for someone like me, I actually am a pastor's wife, you know? So I do try to go to his church as much as I can. How do I, would you say just kind of occasionally going to churches on a Sunday morning and, you know, just getting a feel for it, like, how would I get my foot in the door if I couldn't attend those services on a regular basis?

    [00:12:32] Whitney Owens: I think even

    [00:12:33] Cameisha Brewer: going on, like, if they have a Wednesday night service or like a women's conference, like whatever your target audience is. Unless it's children, because they're probably not going to let you just be there as a random adult at a children's event. Even if you serve children in your therapy practice, but just going whatever services you can go to.

    [00:12:51] Cameisha Brewer: If it's a late service, or it's an early service. And then from there going to the welcome center. Just to be practical to find out. Okay. What do y'all do? How can I be involved? Tell me about the church. Are y'all in the process of closing? Are you in the process of building a new location or starting a new campus and the welcome center?

    [00:13:09] Cameisha Brewer: People will usually tell you right? And if it's a small church and they don't have a welcome center yet. Usually the ushers or whoever's at the front, the greeters, they kind of know the business too, or they will walk you to someone and do the introduction for you. And from there, y'all can just have a conversation and say, Hey, this is who I am.

    [00:13:26] Cameisha Brewer: I had to do this when I moved the 1st time to a new area to practice. I didn't know anybody. So I started with churches and I just got connected. I had met some friends on Facebook and I was like, so when does church start? What time? They're like, oh, well, you can come. And as soon as I got there, they started introducing people, introducing me to people.

    [00:13:42] Cameisha Brewer: And then we started going to coffee so I could learn more about who they are, what they do, what they needed. So direct answer, it's going to take time. Like this is not a quick process. So if you need clients next week, you may not get them from that church. It may be another six months to a year because you have to build trust.

    [00:14:00] Cameisha Brewer: You have to build rapport, schedule a couple of meetings, go to a couple of services, be involved in some outreach stuff, and then it can grow from there. So it may take you some time to get it done.

    [00:14:11] Whitney Owens: Mm hmm. Yeah. I love the way you're changing kind of the way I think about it. And it's honestly the way I do business, but I don't know if I would have, like, I'm like throwing it the other way and I'm like, yeah, like really good points.

    [00:14:22] Whitney Owens: Like even thinking about the summit, I'm doing that. I just was emailing somebody right before we got on here about that. And when I'm thinking about the speakers, it's like, yeah, I'm not going to just let anybody get up there and speak. It's going to be somebody that I've had a relationship with multiple interactions, someone I can really trust.

    [00:14:39] Whitney Owens: And so why would a pastor refer to me just because of one quick conversation I had with them? Right. It's that relational component that you're speaking to. And I appreciate that. Yeah. And a lot of pastors

    [00:14:51] Cameisha Brewer: understand that not all therapists are good therapists. Just because we're licensed, right? Some therapists don't have integrity.

    [00:14:58] Cameisha Brewer: They're not after truly helping people. They're trying to get paid and we all are right. We're business owners, but some therapists, I mean, some pastors, they know that about their say, maybe they had some bad experiences with therapists who just wanted to come to the church so they could speak and be paid or just wanted to come so they could get referrals.

    [00:15:14] Cameisha Brewer: And it was more about what the therapist could get instead of what the therapist could contribute to the church. And a lot of pastors, they're, they're not. They've been burned and so they're a little bit more cautious than normal if they've had that bad experience. So, as y'all are building relationships, that may be a good question to ask.

    [00:15:31] Cameisha Brewer: Have y'all had therapists before come here? What was their approach? Did you like the relationship building strategy that they had? Is there something you wish they would have done differently that would have been more beneficial to the church members, like asking those questions? Because that goes a long way with the pastor to like, they're really interested in us.

    [00:15:50] Cameisha Brewer: They're interested about the experience and how our members feel when we refer them to a therapist, like all those things matter and they can still get you in the door and through the door and at the table eventually, if they know that you are genuinely interested in giving and not just what you can get.

    [00:16:08] Whitney Owens: Yes. I love that. I love that. And that's what it's all about is, is we give as much as we can, knowing that we will receive back. You know, as God sees fit. And, uh, that's, I love that you're going into that. That's really pretty. Um, okay. So let's say a pastor's like, all right, Hey, let's get coffee. Right. Then the therapist is all nervous.

    [00:16:28] Whitney Owens: What am I, what am I going to say? What am I going to do? Okay. Could you kind of walk us through a conversation sitting now in the pastor? Do I tell them about my practice? How do I go about that? Yeah. So I think

    [00:16:40] Cameisha Brewer: first you need to listen. Right? It almost becomes a therapy session, not to treat the pastor, but to do the assessment to understand the pastor's heart and vision and needs because they may have a special ministry that is geared toward addiction and recovery or, or military families, people who've been in combat.

    [00:17:02] Cameisha Brewer: And so, if any of those things are something you are interested in, then you can present your services as a solution. Once you hear the vision. And now I'm trying to come, well, I speak on this and I'm trained in empty. They probably don't know what those things mean. They probably don't even care. So you want to ask them, like, what is the vision?

    [00:17:20] Cameisha Brewer: What are you guys working on in the next 2 years? What would you like to see happen within your church? And you may not. That 1st, coffee date may not be where you talk business. It may not be where you talk about solutions and what you can do. Listen to the vision and then go home and I recommend pray about it and ask God how he wants you to approach the conversation.

    [00:17:43] Cameisha Brewer: If he does at all. Because sometimes we think like, oh, this is going to be a great fit. And then you find out that the church may actually have some doctrines and practices that you don't agree with, and that don't align with your values. And then you don't want to offer your services before, you know, that, or before you've had time to process that because, you know, once it's out there, if you take it back, it doesn't look good because it means like, you can do your research before you started offering services.

    [00:18:07] Cameisha Brewer: So just have coffee. And be human, don't talk business, listen, learn about the vision. I think for a lot of therapists, there's an urgency that the coffee days have to be about business. And you have to talk about money and then bringing you in to speak. You actually don't just gets another passive. And from that conversation alone, you may still get referrals, even though you didn't mention anything about referrals.

    [00:18:27] Cameisha Brewer: You didn't mention anything about growing to practice. You were just being human and listening and trying to be a resource in the community and not build a business relationship with the church. So just talk and have coffee

    [00:18:37] Whitney Owens: and listen. Mm hmm. And therapists already know how to do that. Mm hmm. We got trained in it.

    [00:18:42] Whitney Owens: Yes. Absolutely. Definitely. All right. Okay. So we get, we form this relationship with them over coffee. Maybe they send us a referral or two, or maybe we don't hear from them. And so kind of what's, I'm kind of going into directions here. I mean, one thing I hear from people is, well, I did that. I had a coffee date.

    [00:19:02] Whitney Owens: I did that thing and I haven't gotten a referral. Well, do you have any encouragement or anything to say about that?

    [00:19:07] Cameisha Brewer: Yeah. So in my I'll give y'all some goodies. So, in my course, private practice, where there's an entire. Set of trainings about follow ups so once you have coffee. You have to call back, you have to go back to the church, you have to send emails, you have to show up at another service.

    [00:19:24] Cameisha Brewer: 1 coffee date is not an obligation to the pastor for them to send you referrals. Like, if you had coffee 6 months ago, okay, cool. What have you done since then? Have you been back to the church? Or did you just sit by the phone and wait for a referral expecting to get 1? I think that's a little little entitled just being completely honest and.

    [00:19:43] Cameisha Brewer: I don't think that's the most effective approach. So, once you have coffee, you follow up, I recommend every 30 days just to check in and not say, hey, y'all haven't sent me referrals. Not that, but just checking to say, hey, how are things going? Do you guys need any resources? Do you need introductions? Are y'all having an upcoming event that I could be a part of?

    [00:20:04] Cameisha Brewer: And so being. A therapist in the community also means you're kind of like an extended church member if you pledge formal membership or not, but, like, you can. Technically sort of belong to a lot of churches in your city. And I think you should, if you're going to be a leader in the industry and a leader in the community of going to different churches, being involved, being visible, you'll get referrals.

    [00:20:26] Cameisha Brewer: If people know you exist 1 private coffee date, no follow ups, people don't know you exist. So, as a therapist, you have to do your due diligence constantly and consistently to make sure people remember your name because if you show up. You know, top of the year, therapists get real motivated about building out the referral networks for the year.

    [00:20:45] Cameisha Brewer: So, if you show up in January, you have a coffee date with the pastor in January, and then it's October and you haven't heard anything. There may be 15 other therapists who have come into that church's life. They've had pastor with the coffee. They actually attended church. They got plugged in. So, no, they don't remember you from January.

    [00:21:02] Cameisha Brewer: The people they do remember the therapist they are currently seeing on a regular basis. Meanwhile, it's October. Now, you're still sitting by your phone. So you have to stay engaged and stay visible and make sure that people remember who you are and what you do and how you can serve them.

    [00:21:17] Whitney Owens: Yeah, I keep hearing value value value.

    [00:21:19] Whitney Owens: Like, we're giving them value. Right. We're serving them. I love, I love that concept and you keep going back to that. And I think that's so powerful because that's what we got into this work anyway, you know, at a professor who said, do something you love so much, you do it for free, do so while you get paid to do it.

    [00:21:35] Whitney Owens: It's just like, that's what we're doing as therapists. Um, so I think that's great. So I love that. You also gave me that 30 day example, like every 30 days, cause I've always wondered that. So that's really helpful to have that. Um, another question I get is dual relationships. So, right. Okay. So should I really be talking to my own pastor or not?

    [00:21:57] Whitney Owens: And can I really see people from my church? Curious if you had any thoughts about that? So I

    [00:22:03] Cameisha Brewer: personally, I think it kind of depends on the size of the church in your area. So when you're living in a small town, especially in the South, there's no way to not know people. Like you're going to just, you're going to see your people.

    [00:22:13] Cameisha Brewer: They're going to be at church. Your kids are going to be on the same soccer team. You're going to see them in the grocery store. Like it's okay. And I don't think. I put this in a Facebook group a couple of days ago, someone asked, like, on Facebook, like, they want to change their name and have this alias name because they didn't want clients to find.

    [00:22:28] Cameisha Brewer: I'm like, we're not in the witness protection program. You can be a therapist. You can have a life. People are going to see you. It's okay. Even at church. So, for me, what I have done to help with the dual relationships is my husband and I. We just moved and bought a house. So we're in, we're outside of little rock, but we have a church home now.

    [00:22:48] Cameisha Brewer: And so I don't see people that go to the church and the pastors know that we had coffee. We had lunch. I stay connected. Like, we're doing all the things, but I don't see people from the church because. I want to have a place to go and in my career, I've always seen people from the church. And so it's hard for me to even be a part of Sunday school or a small group because my clients are in the room.

    [00:23:09] Cameisha Brewer: So anything I need spiritually or any prayer requests I have for my family. I don't want clients to know that. So for me, I don't do business at my church. I don't see clients from my church and it is a very large church. So you may pick and choose to do that. Like, keep your home church. So you can have privacy for you and your family because life happens, like, you may need for every question.

    [00:23:31] Cameisha Brewer: I may need money. Somebody may get sick. Like, you don't want to have all your business out. But if you're comfortable with that, do it. So you may choose not to do business at your own church, but have a couple of churches in the area where you do business and not business of. Uh, risky business where everything is like financial exploitation on a small congregation that has no budget.

    [00:23:51] Cameisha Brewer: Not that, but seeing clients, you may pick and choose which churches you have relationships with to get referrals from, but still have a safe place for you and your family to minimize the number of dual relationships that you have. You're going to have some, it just happens, but that doesn't mean don't do anything because you're worried about a dual relationship.

    [00:24:09] Cameisha Brewer: Like, it's okay.

    [00:24:11] Whitney Owens: Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah. I, um, same thing used to see clients for my church, but I had a very large church that was a part of, um, and now I'm in a small church and I would never see a client from there, but that was also a really great thing about starting a group practice. Was I would get referrals and now I have therapists that can see those clients and I'm not involved at all unless something happens that I really need to be involved in.

    [00:24:34] Whitney Owens: So now I've got a place to feed those people. And so as I kind of hear you sharing, I'm thinking for maybe for a solo practice owner, having a relationship with another solo practice owner that y'all can cross refer when you do get a referral from your church. So you have a place. That you can send those clients.

    [00:24:49] Cameisha Brewer: Yeah, and I still do that. I get calls. I got a call last week from a pastor from a church. We hadn't been a part of for several years because we moved and they were asking for referrals for 1 of the members and they sent me the information and they wanted a Christian, um, psych. Provider like mid management provider, and I hadn't seen them.

    [00:25:09] Cameisha Brewer: I didn't I didn't think anything about it. Like, I didn't need a lot of information, even though they gave me, you know, the information about them. I didn't need it. What they wanted was. Contact info for a mid management provider who was also a Christian, so I sent it. There's nothing else to talk about. I don't have to go visit, you know, we have a we're years in now.

    [00:25:28] Cameisha Brewer: We've done a lot of referrals, but having relationships with other providers has helped me because I do have a solo practice. And so just being able to be a resource to a church that we're no longer a part of. But I still feel connected to that church. I still share information. I still sometimes send referrals to the church for them to be a part of a congregation because I.

    [00:25:47] Cameisha Brewer: I know what they teach. I know they're small group leaders. I know it'll be a really good, safe, positive environment for a person. So, yes, I refer to the church just like the church refers to me. And if I were a mid management provider, it'd be a great referral for me, but since I'm not, I can refer it out.

    [00:26:01] Cameisha Brewer: And that's a part of the relationship building of just being a resource. Even if you don't get paid from it directly, but helping people get the care that they need and the treatment, I think that's the biggest picture of all of it.

    [00:26:12] Whitney Owens: Mm hmm. Definitely. So what would you say to someone who says. Uh, I can't get in with this church because they have their own counseling center.

    [00:26:21] Whitney Owens: Because we see that a lot, especially non denominational churches. A lot of them have their own therapy practice at the church. And so should we even try to get in at places like that? Or just let it go? I say, yeah,

    [00:26:34] Cameisha Brewer: because there's so much we can do. And as therapists, we don't all do the same things. We don't all have the same specialty.

    [00:26:41] Cameisha Brewer: So even if they have a counseling center. But none of the counseling, none of the counselors, there are trauma informed or trained in or have a dual certification and something else for brain spotting or anything. And you do, you could still be a part of that, even though you're not on payroll and you're not on salary, but you could still like, indirectly be affiliated because.

    [00:27:03] Cameisha Brewer: I think, you know, doctors do this all the time. They have multiple affiliations with different hospitals and clinic service. We can have the same, even though they have accounts in clinic. That doesn't mean the door is closed. That just means they have something that's already established, which is a good thing.

    [00:27:17] Cameisha Brewer: That means it's less work for you, and you can just come into what they're already doing and enhance the programming and the treatment that's provided, or just be a liaison if they get full and they need somebody to spill over those referrals to, they need to know who you are. So, don't be intimidated if they already have an established counseling center, you can still be a part of it.

    [00:27:37] Cameisha Brewer: You just need to ask questions and see how you can be a part of it. What they need what's missing if they're looking to expand or have partnerships. And some of them are looking for that, but there are a little intimidated. So they just don't reach out because they feel like there's not an opportunity there.

    [00:27:52] Cameisha Brewer: And you won't know until you ask.

    [00:27:55] Whitney Owens: Mm hmm. 100%. Yeah. Is there anything else that I didn't ask about that? You want to make sure to mention about. Networking, referring, talking to pastors, I think

    [00:28:06] Cameisha Brewer: for anyone listening, when you are looking at referring and being a referral source for pastors, it is so important to not think about the money as you're going in,

    [00:28:18] Whitney Owens: right?

    [00:28:19] Cameisha Brewer: Even if you need it, it's not the church's fault that you need it. So when you go in, go in slowly and cautiously without the demand of trying to get to a sales conversation quickly. Right. And so some of that is. Understanding who you're talking to understanding these people are human, and they literally do what we do in a way in a different way.

    [00:28:43] Cameisha Brewer: And so, if you're not okay with someone coming to your practice, walking in the door, talking to you about their services in the middle of your day, right? It's a work day for pastors too. They have meetings. They may have been in the hospital. They may have just found out that a. A church member has passed away.

    [00:29:04] Cameisha Brewer: They have to go tell the family. It's going to be a rough day. So if you walk in talking about sales and not being sensitive to the situation, it is not going to be a good look for you. And if you wouldn't want someone walking into your practice, disrupting your day, talking to you about all these other stuff and they, and, you know, nothing about them.

    [00:29:23] Cameisha Brewer: Don't do that to pass this. I think that's a just straight up integrity and understanding that we're all busy. We all have a lot going on and you never know. So ask if it's a good time. And if it's not asked when to set up a good time to talk and then just nurture their relationship and build it slowly.

    [00:29:41] Cameisha Brewer: So you can have a long lasting relationship that will serve you for years. Pastors in an area where I lived as a child, they still call me and they call me because of my daddy and they call me because of my mom and they, you know, in the South, we say, you know, sister Brewer, they're like, well, little sister Brewer, cause I'm the baby.

    [00:29:58] Cameisha Brewer: I'm the youngest of five. They're like, well, little sister Brewer, what are we supposed to do? These are, you know, 80 year old pastors.

    [00:30:04] Whitney Owens: I love it,

    [00:30:05] Cameisha Brewer: but we got relationships with them and I will happily answer their questions, their daughter's questions, anybody in the family, because that's what happens. I'm not looking for the money.

    [00:30:15] Cameisha Brewer: I'm not looking for. It's small churches, sometimes less than 25 people right in the middle of nowhere in Southern and Southern part of Arkansas. I'm like, it doesn't matter. I'm here to help. However long that needs to be. I'll be little sister brewer forever. They still see me as an 8 year old girl, but I love it because that's what I signed up for is good relationships that can last for years and years to come.

    [00:30:39] Whitney Owens: I think it's a testament to faith too. It's, it's, we give knowing that God will give to us whatever we need, if it's relationships or money or whatever. Yeah. Definitely. Well, Kamishi, this has been really great. And I, you've even challenged me to think about some ways that I'm thinking about this. And I feel like I think about it all the time, you know, being a practice center, but it's so good and refreshing to like have different ways to be thinking about it.

    [00:31:06] Whitney Owens: Yeah. And you have some great resources. So let's talk about your new book, the CEO clinician. Can you tell people about that and how to access it?

    [00:31:13] Cameisha Brewer: Yeah. So the book is a very short read. It's an easy read. It's a little over 100 pages because they're so busy and I know that. So I wanted to make sure I gave you a lot of value practical steps, but I'm teaching you how to set up structure market and scale a solo private practice in 60 days.

    [00:31:30] Cameisha Brewer: And so. It's really good and I enjoy it's the book that I needed when I first started that I didn't have. So I wrote it for the newbies and I do have courses and coaching programs, but the book is 20 dollars. So I wanted something that was more budget friendly for the therapists who are just getting started.

    [00:31:47] Cameisha Brewer: When I was starting, I didn't have course money yet. I didn't have coaching program money. And so I wanted it to be a really good resource, but once you buy the book, you get access to exclusive podcast episodes. You get access to a lot of. The workbooks and resources, there's a whole book bonus page link that you have access to inside the book.

    [00:32:05] Cameisha Brewer: That is exclusive. Nobody else can access it. So I wanted to make sure y'all had resources and a lot of support. And once you get on the email list, you'll get more emails. I do like free monthly round tables for free coaching for therapists that are like. Can you say, I don't know what to do. Like, I just want to ask somebody, like, I will give you an opportunity to ask me that.

    [00:32:24] Cameisha Brewer: So there's a lot of really cool resources that are built into the book where I can support you. My team can support you. So you don't have to try to build this practice by yourself.

    [00:32:33] Whitney Owens: Those are some great bonuses there. So definitely worth the 20 bucks. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And then you have a starter packet, correct?

    [00:32:40] Whitney Owens: For therapists on your website.

    [00:32:41] Cameisha Brewer: Yeah, it is see consulting dot com slash start. And so it is a 3 part mini series of me sharing the 3 biggest mistakes that I made in private practice and they were really big, um, being very vulnerable, you know, but these are mistakes that cost me time. They cost me money, a lot of heartache, and I had to do a lot of restructuring in my business because I made these mistakes.

    [00:33:04] Cameisha Brewer: So, to avoid them, make sure y'all grab the freebie. So you can go through this series and. And learn what I did, but also learn what I did to correct it. Not just me telling my business, but the solutions for correcting it to make sure you don't do those things going forward.

    [00:33:18] Whitney Owens: That's great. All right. And we will have all the links in the show notes to all that information.

    [00:33:23] Whitney Owens: And is there anything else we missed that you want to make sure to let the audience know about?

    [00:33:26] Cameisha Brewer: No, we covered it all. This has been amazing.

    [00:33:29] Whitney Owens: Yes. Well, it's been nice, refreshing for me as well. And I'm glad to get to know you through the podcast interview and I'm looking forward to further connection in the future.

    [00:33:37] Whitney Owens: Absolutely.

    [00:34:00] Whitney Owens: Special thanks to Marty Altman for the music in this podcast. The Wise Practice Podcast is part of the Sitecraft Podcast Network, a collaboration of independent podcasters focused on helping people live more meaningful and productive lives. To learn more about the other amazing podcasts in the network, head on over to sitecraftnetwork.

    [00:34:19] Whitney Owens: com. The Wise Practice Podcast represents the opinions of Whitney Owens and her guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only, and the content should not be taken as legal advice. If you have legal questions, please consult an attorney.


James Marland
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