WP 83 | Shifting Perspectives: Transitioning from Therapist to Successful Practice Owner with David Sturgess
Are you a therapist looking to transition into a successful practice owner? Do you want to grow your practice, your faith, and still enjoy a fulfilling life outside of work? If so, you're in the right place. In this blog post, we'll dive into the insightful conversation between Whitney Owens, a group practice owner and faith-based practice consultant, and David Sturgess, who shares his journey from therapist to a thriving solo practice owner.
Transitioning to a Private Practice: A Journey of Growth
David Sturgess shares his inspiring journey of transitioning from working in psychiatric care to starting his own solo practice in 2019. He delves into the challenges he faced, balancing financial stability with the dream of running a successful private practice. With strategic planning and perseverance, David was able to take the leap and make his private practice a full-time endeavor.
Overcoming Stinking Thinking: Changing Mindsets
One of the key points discussed in the conversation is the importance of shifting perspectives and changing the way therapists think when transitioning to practice ownership. From seeking help and guidance in business aspects to reevaluating the relationship between time and money, David highlights the significance of adopting a business mindset and making informed decisions to ensure the success of your practice.
Mastering the Business Side of Therapy
David emphasizes the need for therapists to embrace financial literacy and seek help when navigating the intricacies of running a private practice. From understanding expenses and taxes to investing in marketing strategies that align with your niche population, he stresses the importance of tracking key performance indicators and making data-driven decisions to drive growth and profitability.
Join the Mastermind Group: Elevate Your Practice
For therapists looking to level up their private practice, David introduces an upcoming mastermind group starting in July. The mastermind group focuses on providing like-minded solo practice owners with the guidance and support needed to grow their faith-based practices effectively. With topics ranging from branding and mission to financial management and client referrals, the mastermind group offers a comprehensive learning experience tailored to the needs of solo practitioners.
Take the Next Step Towards Success
Whether you're on the brink of transitioning to a private practice, seeking to refine your business strategies, or looking to elevate your practice to new heights, the journey of a therapist to a successful practice owner is both challenging and rewarding. By embracing a business mindset, seeking the right help and resources, and staying committed to continuous growth and learning, therapists can pave the way for a flourishing private practice.
Conclusion: Embracing Growth and Success
In conclusion, the conversation between Whitney Owens and David Sturgess sheds light on the transformative journey of transitioning from therapist to successful practice owner. By embracing new perspectives, seeking support, and mastering the business side of therapy, therapists can embark on a path towards personal and professional growth. Joining a mastermind group or seeking individual consulting can further enhance the journey towards building a thriving and fulfilling private practice.
Are you ready to shift your perspective and elevate your practice? Take the next step towards success by embracing change, seeking support, and investing in your growth as a practice owner. The possibilities are limitless when you dare to transition from therapist to successful practice owner.
The Wise Practice Summit
The episode also highlights the upcoming Wise Practice Summit, an event dedicated to faith-based practice owners. The summit promises to be an enriching environment for networking, learning, and growth. It aims to foster a sense of community among practitioners who wish to blend their faith with their professional practice.
Brenda Stewart, a practice owner from Winter Park, Florida, shares her positive experience at the Wise Practice Summit, praising its blend of practice-building workshops and faith-based spiritual care discussions. Her testimonial underscores the energizing and soulful impact of the event, encouraging others to attend.
How Can Gusto Help Save Time with Payroll Processing?
Gusto is an excellent payroll processing option for therapist group practice owners due to its intuitive interface and comprehensive support. It simplifies the complex task of managing payroll, taxes, and employee benefits, which is particularly beneficial for practices with multi-state employees. Gusto’s paperless onboarding streamlines the hiring process, and its user-friendly software makes it easy for administrative staff to run payroll efficiently. Additionally, Gusto’s responsive phone support ensures that questions or issues are promptly addressed, allowing therapists to focus more on their clients and less on administrative tasks. If you sign up using this link, you will get a $100 sign-on bonus!
Webinars
When to Pull the Plug on Agency Work and Grow your Faith-based Private Practice, Tuesday, June 18, 2024, 1:00 PM to 2:00 PM
Is It Time To Grow? Should I Start a Group Practice?. Thursday, June 20, 2024, 2:00 PM 3:00 PM
Links and Resources
Looking for support and connection: Join the Wise Practice Community
Learn More about Whitney Owens Consulting
Connect with Whitney Ownes on Instagram
Connect with Whitney Ownes on Facebook
Check the podcasts on the PsychCraft Network: PsychCraftnetwork.com
Podcast Production and Show Notes by Course Creation Studio.
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WP 83 | Ep. 83 - Shifting Perspectives: Transitioning from Therapist to Successful Practice Owner with David Sturgess
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[00:02:00] Whitney Owens: Hi, I'm Whitney Owens. I'm a group practice owner and faith based practice consultant. And I'm here to tell you that you can have it all. Want to grow your practice? Want to grow your faith? Want to enjoy your life outside of work?
[00:02:13] Whitney Owens: You've come to the right place. Each week on the Wise Practice Podcast, I will give you the action steps to have a successful faith based practice while also having a good time. Now let's get started.
[00:08:01] Whitney Owens: Welcome back to the last practice podcast. And today we have David Sturgis here to talk about the ways we think as solo practice owners, because we have some stinking thinking. That's what we talk to our clients about. And I think also as we make that transition from therapist to practice owner, we have the same kind of thinking.
[00:08:21] Whitney Owens: So we're going to talk about that today on the show. How's it going, David?
[00:08:25] David Sturgess: Pretty good. How are you?
[00:08:27] Whitney Owens: Good. Good. I'm glad that you're here to talk about this because I think you really understand the mindset of a solo practice owner and what that was like. So let's kind of go back in time. When did you start your solo practice again?
[00:08:40] David Sturgess: So I think it was about 2018. Um, I worked in psychiatric care. Facilities for children and adolescents for about 10 years. Um, and then our oldest child was becoming an adolescent, so that was starting to, uh, show itself and, um, still kind of getting burnt out with hospital life and didn't really know if, um, it was therapy that I was having a problem with, or was it the aspect of, you know, The adolescence and getting ready to have an adolescent in the house, um, and, and so about 2018, um, started talking with my wife about starting up a private practice, um, one night a week and just seeing how it kind of went, uh, we weren't in a position financially to quit the hospital entirely.
[00:09:39] David Sturgess: We needed the paycheck, um, you know, to, to come home. Um, and then it was 2019, uh, April of 2009 when I left the hospital and started the private practice full time. Uh, so it, it took about a year to grow it to a point where my wife and I felt the numbers made sense, um, you know, to make that kind of transition.
[00:10:06] David Sturgess: And that's not to say I had fully replaced my income, um, but it, the home math, you know, allowed me to, you know, leave and then that gave me more time to finish developing my business to replace my income.
[00:10:24] Whitney Owens: Yeah. And so how old were your girls then?
[00:10:28] David Sturgess: Um, well, our oldest turned 13 in the quarantine, uh, in 2020.
[00:10:33] David Sturgess: So I guess she was 12 and our youngest was, uh, about eight when I left, uh, cause she turned nine during quarantine as well.
[00:10:47] Whitney Owens: So what was more difficult starting the practice, like from the beginning, you know, where you were still having your full time job and then you were seeing clients on the side, or was it more scary when you like went full time private practice?
[00:10:59] David Sturgess: Uh, full time private practice because of my relationship with money and, um, you know, and my wife worked full time. Um, she had benefits through her company for all of us. So there was that aspect that was, You know, taken care of, but we still relied on my salary, you know, just to, you know, eat and have a life.
[00:11:28] David Sturgess: Um, and so there wasn't that pressure that I think there would have been had I just quit the hospital cold and started the private practice ground up. Um, and so it was, it was comforting knowing, okay, I still have this, you know, reliable paycheck while I am trying to figure out how to do this private practice thing.
[00:11:55] David Sturgess: Um, and then it started working. And so the hospital got to a point where it was maybe more in the way, I guess is a way to say it. Um, my, my excitement was, I want to go build this, stay in the hospital.
[00:12:18] Whitney Owens: Yeah, I bet a lot of people can relate to that. Just kind of that component of you're in one job. I mean, I totally relate.
[00:12:24] Whitney Owens: That's how I started my business too, or at least one of them. And then I left that one and started another one. Um, but yeah, it was just like that. And. It does start to get where you feel like the other job is in the way. I think that's a really good point that you just made that I think a lot of people ask, Oh, well, when do I leave my agency job and go full private practice?
[00:12:44] Whitney Owens: And I don't think there's a perfect answer to that. But that idea of when it gets in the way of your passion, that's a good time to be thinking about leaving it.
[00:12:52] David Sturgess: Yeah, I would say that timing is different for everybody, you know, we all have different aspects of life, you know, different needs, different desires And I think for me, will this work?
[00:13:13] David Sturgess: You know, I was pretty confident at that point having found you as my business consultant Whereas like, okay I've got somebody that has done this. I mean, I think at that point you had had, I mean, you were five, eight therapists and your group practice, maybe around that 2018, 2019, you don't remember, um, but you certainly were past doing it all by yourself, you know, and so there was, there was the confidence of, okay, here's, here's my consultant that is a few steps down the road.
[00:13:52] David Sturgess: Yeah. Um, where I, I want to be, and this hospital's in the way, you know, like, I, I need more time to grow this, um, because the referrals were coming in. I, I started one night a week, eventually getting, you know, A couple of months in, I went to two nights a week, you know, and so I really got to a point of burning the candle on both ends, you know, and it just, it was more fun in the private practice.
[00:14:23] David Sturgess: I saw more, um, freedom of time,
[00:14:29] Whitney Owens: you know,
[00:14:30] David Sturgess: um, and then we went into the quarantine.
[00:14:34] Whitney Owens: Fun times. Yeah. Well, I remember some of the same
[00:14:39] David Sturgess: fears. Yeah, I couldn't imagine working in the hospital during quarantine.
[00:14:45] Whitney Owens: That would not have been pleasant. So as we kind of make that transition and I'm thinking about you making that transition, what were some of the ways you had to change the way you were thinking?
[00:14:55] Whitney Owens: Because we didn't, you know, we didn't go to school to run a business. We went to school to learn how to be a therapist and running a business is totally different. So let's kind of start, you've got three things there for the way we change our thinking. What's the first one?
[00:15:07] David Sturgess: Yeah. Changing the way you think about getting help.
[00:15:10] David Sturgess: Um, I think as therapists, We typically are the ones helping everybody else, you know, and, and we, um, some of us do research really well. We learn different modalities and, you know, all that type of stuff. Um, most therapists have zero business experience. Um, they didn't go to school for it. They've never read a business book.
[00:15:37] David Sturgess: Um, and really with the mental health world, you either work in some sort of agency hospital setting or you do private practice. Um, and then there's the idea of business models, right? And so am I going to be an insurance based business? Am I going to be a self paid, you know, type of business? Um, and you could make a decision early on where you think you want to go one route, and then through a series of different events, um, make a big mistake doing that.
[00:16:13] David Sturgess: And it's not just, oh, let me change something. You, your mistake might cost you thousands of dollars, um, of revenue, might cost you thousands of dollars in taxes, might cost you thousands of dollars in both. You know, um, and so the idea of, of asking for help, you know, if it's something that you're going to have to rely on your family is going to have to rely on, um, we teach people to ask for help, you know, with their mental emotional needs.
[00:16:52] David Sturgess: Um, and from a business standpoint, you don't know what you don't know. Um, and, and again, I think to have somebody that's proven to be successful. And what you're wanting to do is critical, um, makes it easier to ask for help when you see that person doing what they say they are teaching versus just somebody selling something online.
[00:17:25] Whitney Owens: Definitely. Yeah. When I started my group practice, I had two years of business coaching. You know, I didn't want to make those mistakes and then even later, I got coaching again from a different person and, you know, as therapists, we're telling our clients to get therapy. You're right. And then we're saying to ourselves, okay, I think I'll get therapy makes me a better therapist.
[00:17:46] Whitney Owens: For sure. I can tell a difference when I'm in my own therapy and I can sit with my clients a lot better. Why would we not do the same for business coaching? Like, And especially, you know, as you're dependent on that finances for your family, or as me for a group practice center, it's like my practice, my therapist, depending on me to run this business.
[00:18:04] Whitney Owens: Well, and so I need to take that as seriously as possible. And I loved what you said about it saves you money from mistakes. And I just am going to share an example here because it was just the other day. I was on a consult call with somebody. And this girl had had a hard time putting the money down to work with me because it's business coaching, especially individual can be expensive.
[00:18:24] Whitney Owens: And, uh, I gave her 1 piece of advice that saved her a thousand dollars right there on the spot. And I was like, at the end, I go, well, that just covered everything you just paid for this month. She was like, yeah, you did. And I was like, exactly. And like, think about how much money you can save in the long run.
[00:18:42] David Sturgess: Right? Yeah. We wouldn't watch a couple of YouTube videos and listen to a podcast on how to do EMDR and then start doing EMDR with
[00:18:52] Whitney Owens: a client.
[00:18:53] David Sturgess: Right. You know, like that just, that's insane. You know, um, not just aside from the ethics, you know, of it, but like, that's ridiculous to think, Oh, I'm going to go start something brand new and huge.
[00:19:08] David Sturgess: And so, Let me check out a few podcasts and YouTube videos, um, and then give it the old college try, um, and running a business is exactly like that, you know,
[00:19:21] Whitney Owens: people do that.
[00:19:22] David Sturgess: Oh, they do it all the time. Yeah. Um, and they waste time and they waste money and they get angry and stressed and scared, you know, um, versus.
[00:19:39] David Sturgess: Finding that consultant to tell you what to do and just do what they tell you to do.
[00:19:44] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, it reminds me of the retreat we did a few weeks ago. One of the practice owners, I don't think she'd ever done consulting before she showed up. She was like, this was two to three times worth the value. And I accomplished in two days what I would have done in six months.
[00:19:59] Whitney Owens: And it's because she had people right there. Boom, boom, boom. And it was incredible. Anyway. Yeah. All right. What's the second way to change thinking as a practice owner?
[00:20:10] David Sturgess: Uh, change the way you think about money and time. Um, and I, I put both of them together because time is money, right? As, as a clinician, um, you're charging a certain rate per session hour.
[00:20:25] David Sturgess: Um, and so with having your own practice, um, you know, you're, we're not getting paid time off like we would in a salaried position in a community agency type of thing, right? And you're going to want time off for Thanksgiving and Christmas and you're probably going to take a vacation or two throughout the year.
[00:20:44] David Sturgess: Um, you're going to need to go to your, CE events, you know, and to the great wise practice summit in the fall, um, you know, and, and so you're not going to be seeing clients during those times, um, nor are your clients coming in during Thanksgiving week or Christmas break, or, you know, the summer dips because everybody's on vacation, right?
[00:21:11] David Sturgess: And so time is money. Um, and a lot of people don't have good financial literacy, you know, I mean, going back to high school. They didn't take a finance class. They didn't take macroeconomics type of class. Um, who balances a checkbook anymore these days? You know, um, what, what's a budget? You know, how, how do we, what do you mean budget?
[00:21:39] David Sturgess: Um, and there's a lot of expenses in the business that we have to do. Um, but there's a lot of things that we can do also, um, that we don't have to do. Or going back to asking for help. It's stuff that we need to do, but it's not, it's a not now thing. And so we don't need to be spending money on that right now.
[00:22:06] David Sturgess: We need to be spending it. You know over here on one of these different things right now Um, I think also like doing yard work is kind of grounding for me Um, so I don't pay somebody to do my yard But that idea of paying somebody to do your yard paying somebody to clean your house that might sound really affluent right Um, but I know just on basic math like I could make a whole lot more money in the two hours You I, I spend cutting my grass, um, at work, then paying somebody to do it.
[00:22:44] David Sturgess: So that return on investment idea of where am I going to make the money? And do I need to outsource my grass cutting so I can go make more? You know, seeing a client type of thing. Um, so, you know, the idea of time and money or it's interchangeable, you know, when it comes to a private practice like that, um, if you're not seeing a client, you're not making money.
[00:23:14] David Sturgess: Well, that doesn't mean we work 900 hours a week. You know, it's not the way it works. Um, and so if I need this time off to go on vacation or. I want to go to this training, you know, for whatever, um, I need time and I need money. And so we've got a budget that throughout the year, uh, to make sure that, you know, we have it for when we need it.
[00:23:45] David Sturgess: Um, and we have a lot of systems in place. Um, in the consulting work that we do and in the mastermind that talks about how to kind of organize that and plan that, um, you know, to help us think differently.
[00:24:05] Whitney Owens: Mm hmm. Yeah. That's a good point about money and time going hand in hand because it does, you know, and I remember thinking it was affluent to hire someone to clean my house.
[00:24:15] Whitney Owens: Definitely thought that. And then over time I thought, gosh, you know, the cost of someone to clean my house for four hours. Is the cost of me seeing a client and a half. And let me tell you, I hate cleaning my house.
[00:24:30] David Sturgess: Yeah.
[00:24:30] Whitney Owens: So I love seeing clients. So why would I not do the thing I love and make more money doing it and hire someone to do this?
[00:24:36] Whitney Owens: And I'm helping them. I mean, they want to work, they want to clean my house. So that was a good point that you made there. And. I think so much of it is I didn't learn how to balance my business checkbook in grad school. I mean, I kind of actually, I actually did learn in college in a family and consumer science classes, how to do taxes and a checkbook, um, in my home, but not in my business.
[00:25:01] Whitney Owens: And it is a totally different way to think about things. And so, yeah, you got to change the way you're thinking about managing money. Yeah. Because you have to invest more money to get other things. And I think a lot of practice owners are like, I don't even know where to put this money, how much to put. I would, you can disagree or agree.
[00:25:17] Whitney Owens: I think most solo practice owners spend too much money on marketing. And all these things and then shooting themselves in the foot and they're not putting it in the right things like, so it'll call me up and be like, I spent this money on this and I'm like, what, you know, like,
[00:25:34] David Sturgess: yeah, I mean, and, and remember, we're doing this to provide a living for ourselves and or our family.
[00:25:41] David Sturgess: Right, so this is, I think therapists, they stay in their emotions too much when it comes to the business, you know, and math. Money is, is facts. And when you put a motion on money, it's not about the arithmetic, right? It's your fear of, or scarcity mentality, you know, things like that. And that could come directly from how you were raised, right?
[00:26:13] David Sturgess: Going back to being in your own therapy. Um, and side note, this whole process will teach you a lot about yourself, you know, as you start to confront these things. Thanks. Um, but that idea of, uh, bringing money home because of our lifestyle, right? That, that doesn't mean affluent. We have a house cleaner. Um, but what lifestyle do we want to live, you know, and, and I think that's where I, I did come to realize the hospital is just burnout for me.
[00:26:53] David Sturgess: Um, I still enjoy doing therapy, um, but it took getting into private practice to realize that, um, where it's like, no, I, I do like doing therapy and the freedom to go to my daughter's concert or my daughter's softball game or, um, chaperone the field trip. You know, um, those are all things I would have had to ask permission to do, and, you know, we already have too many people out that day, and, you know, all that stuff.
[00:27:26] David Sturgess: And so you manage your money to manage your time to have the lifestyle that you want.
[00:27:32] Whitney Owens: Mm hmm. Definitely. Anything else there about ways to change our thinking?
[00:27:40] David Sturgess: Um, so changing the way you think about getting help, change the way you think about money and time. Um, I, I think in terms of kind of going back to what you were talking about with, um, things like marketing and growing a client base, um, I kind of use the example of all the TV subscriptions, you know, like your Disney plus app and Netflix and, you know, Spotify and, you know, all these subscriptions, we can nickel and dime stuff all over the place.
[00:28:20] David Sturgess: Um, and not only does that waste time and money, um, but you might not be getting in front of the people. That are your ideal client. Right? So changing the way you think about your kind of niche population. What what brings you enjoyment in your day? Right? If you're seeing five clients in a day, is that just five people that called you and you're desperate for money?
[00:28:53] David Sturgess: So you're seeing five people that you're not? You know, passionate about working with that particular clinical need, right? Or do you want to work specifically with adults that have ADHD, right? And so, um, I think changing the way you think about your time in the sense of, okay, who do I want to work with community agency hospital?
[00:29:22] David Sturgess: I didn't have a choice. It was whoever got admitted to the, to the unit is who I was working with. Um, whatever their clinical issue was, that's what I was working, um, which contributes to burnout. You know, um, so, um, changing the way you think about getting help, changing the way you think about money and time and changing the way you think about, um, your, your marketing and niche population of who you want to work
[00:29:55] Whitney Owens: with.
[00:29:55] Whitney Owens: Yeah, definitely. And I've found that my ways of thinking about marketing and niche population have changed over time. Like I think when I first started, I marketed very differently. Yeah. And now that's changed, you know, especially my time has changed. I have two kids now. And when I first started, I had one, you know, and so doing a lot more SEO marketing kind of stuff.
[00:30:17] Whitney Owens: And at the beginning, I did a lot more in person referral relationships, all that stuff, and that's, that's definitely changed a lot.
[00:30:28] Whitney Owens: So David, you're going to be hosting a mastermind group in the summer for six months. So starting in July, can you tell people what is a mastermind group?
[00:30:39] David Sturgess: Yeah, so a mastermind is a small group of folks that are, um, like minded business owners growing their private practices. Uh, this will kind of focus on solo practices as opposed to group practices.
[00:30:55] David Sturgess: Um, and within wise practice, you know, we do help folks grow their faith based practices. Um, usually There's, um, six to eight folks in a mastermind and, um, meeting, uh, a couple of times a month. So we'll start in July and go all the way through December. We'll finish up just before, um, Christmas. And so meeting twice a month for those six months, um, via Zoom.
[00:31:27] David Sturgess: And, um, we've got a list of. kind of topics for each month that we'd be working through to help folks grow their, their faith based solo practices.
[00:31:41] Whitney Owens: What are some of those topics there? So branding
[00:31:45] David Sturgess: and mission. Um, so kind of speaking to what we were just finishing up with that niche client population. Um, how are we getting that message out there for folks to be able to connect with, okay, there's my pain point and that here's a blog for.
[00:32:03] David Sturgess: You know something on their website that speaks to how they can help me with with that pain point Um bringing up the website, uh talking about seo how to how to create a website that will Kind of move your client from the click to begin counseling. Now type of thing. Um, there's a lot of great things that go on websites that are useless.
[00:32:31] David Sturgess: Um, and make it actually a little bit more complicated for people to, to connect and through business consulting, I've learned, you know, somebody's going to spend seconds on your, your front page, and if something doesn't click and draw them in, they're gone. And so there's a lot of Things there, um, that again, we don't get trained on in clinical school, um, so we've got to learn them there.
[00:33:00] David Sturgess: Um, expenses, taxes, profit, um, how do we create profit first? And that's a hard thing for a lot of clinicians to kind of wrap their head around. Um, I think there's a lot of folks that, um, Um, have trouble charging a certain rate, but then they end up having trouble keeping the doors open, um, and bringing money home to provide for themselves or their family.
[00:33:28] David Sturgess: Um, And so we, we have some time focused on, on that type of stuff as well. Um, developing referrals, um, policies, procedures, you know, from, um, bringing folks in, um, and in that kind of ROI aspect, I have zero interest in learning how to do SEO and, and a bunch of website stuff. So, um, there are things that we need to delegate out.
[00:34:03] David Sturgess: We need to pay. Somebody else to do for us in our business. And, um, I do that so I can spend time doing other things in the business or see another client. Um, and one thing that we'll talk about because a lot of people enjoy learning that stuff, you know, they're, they're great therapists, but they also love trying to get that SEO just right, or just a little bit higher.
[00:34:30] David Sturgess: And that's fine too. Um, but it is intricate and there's a lot of details to it. Um, so we kind of talk about that and, um, something called KPIs or key performance indicators. Um, so how are we tracking calls, referrals, conversion rates, churn rates, client retention, you know, those types of things, because we need to make decisions based off of facts and data and not, Hey, I feel okay with what's in the checking account right now.
[00:35:08] Whitney Owens: Right. So it sounds like this group's going to cover a lot of stuff for solo practice owners. It is. So who would be the ideal person for this class?
[00:35:22] David Sturgess: So ideally, and this is, this was my experience, uh, personally, but it's also folks that I've worked with from a consulting standpoint. Um, you're in a full time job now, and you're looking to build that private practice, um, and transition out of the The agency work, the hospital setting, um, I've got some folks that have been in group practices and they wanted to leave the group private practice and start their own private practice.
[00:35:54] David Sturgess: Um, so a mastermind is appropriate for folks like that, and it's appropriate for folks that have been doing solo practice as well that realize this isn't going the way I wanted it to. Um, and then a third group, um, you know, folks that are in a solo practice, but they need to kind of shore some things up and, um, create a better foundation because they do want to go on and build it into a group practice and start hiring, um, other clinicians, you know, to move from that solo into small group ownership.
[00:36:32] Whitney Owens: Right. So if someone is interested in the course, they can go to wisepractisconsulting. com there, they will see an application to fill out. Cause we want to filter the people that are coming in the mastermind group, making sure it's effective for everyone. So I know David, you had told me you'll be getting on a call with each person that's interested, talking to them about the group, making sure it's a good fit for them and their practice.
[00:36:57] Whitney Owens: And, uh, that sounds great. So if you're interested in the group, head to wisepractisconsulting. com. Free consulting call filling out the application. That's all free because we want to make sure you're going to get the best benefit. Um, so yeah. And if you're interested in individual consulting, how do they get in touch with you?
[00:37:14] David Sturgess: Um, wise practice consulting. com. I am on that website and you can connect with me there and schedule a call.
[00:37:25] Whitney Owens: Thank you for taking the time to be on the show.
[00:37:27] David Sturgess: Thank you.
[00:37:50] Whitney Owens: Special thanks to Marty Altman for the music in this podcast. The Wise Practice Podcast is part of the Sitecraft Podcast Network, a collaboration of independent podcasters focused on helping people live more meaningful and productive lives. To learn more about the other amazing podcasts in the network, head on over to sitecraftnetwork.
[00:38:10] Whitney Owens: com. The Wise Practice Podcast represents the opinions of Whitney Owens and her guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only, and the content should not be taken as legal advice. If you have legal questions, please consult an attorney.
