WP 80 | Managing Your Financials as a Christian Practice Owner with Ralph V. Estep, Jr

Written By James Marland

Managing Your Financials as a Christian Practice Owner with Ralph V. Estep, Jr.

Show Summary

In today's rapidly evolving world, managing finances, especially from a Christian perspective, takes more than mere calculation; it demands a conscious integration of faith into our financial decisions. In the latest episode of the Wise Practice Podcast, Whitney Owens delves into this complex topic with seasoned financial expert Ralph V. Estep. Through their conversation, we uncover valuable insights on melding faith with financial management for Christian practice owners.

Understanding Financial Stewardship

Financial stewardship, as discussed by Ralph V. Estep, transcends the basic act of budgeting and saving. It's about aligning our financial decisions with our Christian beliefs, recognizing that our resources are not ours alone but entrusted to us by God. Ralph emphasizes the importance of transparency, stewardship, and the strategic allocation of resources as fundamental components of managing finances in a way that honors our faith.

The Importance of Budget and Planning

For Christian practice owners, the challenge often lies in managing operational costs while sustaining growth and fulfilling their mission. Ralph discusses the critical balance between growth and stewardship, advising practice owners to plan diligently and budget carefully. This approach ensures that financial decisions support both the business's success and its ability to serve the community effectively. Whitney shares her own experience, highlighting the tension between the impulse to assist those in need and the necessity of maintaining a profitable practice.

Investing in Professional Guidance

One standout point is the recommendation to invest in expert advice. Surrounding oneself with a "dream team" – including a trustworthy accountant, lawyer, and financial advisor – can help navigate the complexities of financial decision-making. This team can offer guidance on everything from tax strategies to business expansion and employee compensation, ensuring decisions are both financially wise and aligned with Christian values.

Balancing Giving and Growth

The podcast also touches on the nuanced topic of charitable giving and pro bono work. Ralph and Whitney discuss how practice owners can balance the desire to give back with the need to sustain their business. They suggest considering alternative forms of giving, such as offering sliding scale fees or volunteering time and expertise to community causes. This approach allows practice owners to fulfill their mission of service without compromising their financial stability.

Ralph V. Estep's Resources

Listeners seeking to deepen their understanding of financial stewardship from a Christian perspective will find invaluable resources in Ralph’s books and daily podcast, "The Ask Ralph Podcast". His works provide practical advice, grounded in Christian principles, for making wise financial decisions that align with one's faith and professional goals.

Concluding Thoughts

The conversation between Whitney Owens and Ralph V. Estep provides a rich tapestry of insights for Christian practice owners striving to navigate the complexities of financial management. By integrating faith into every financial decision, practice owners can not only achieve business success but also contribute positively to their community and serve God’s purpose. This episode not only educates but also inspires, urging us to look at our finances through a lens of faith and stewardship.

For those interested in exploring the intersection of faith and finance further, reaching out to Ralph V. Estep or engaging with Whitney Owens's content provides an excellent starting point. Their experienced insights offer a roadmap for navigating financial challenges while remaining true to one's spiritual convictions.

How Can Guto Help Save Time with Payroll Processing?

Gusto is an excellent payroll processing option for therapist group practice owners due to its intuitive interface and comprehensive support. It simplifies the complex task of managing payroll, taxes, and employee benefits, which is particularly beneficial for practices with multi-state employees. Gusto’s paperless onboarding streamlines the hiring process, and its user-friendly software makes it easy for administrative staff to run payroll efficiently. Additionally, Gusto’s responsive phone support ensures that questions or issues are promptly addressed, allowing therapists to focus more on their clients and less on administrative tasks. If you sign up using this link, you will get a $100 sign-on bonus! 

Guest Resources

Links and Resources



Podcast Production and Show Notes by Course Creation Studio

  • WP 80 | Managing Your Financials as a Christian Practice Owner with Ralph V. Estep, Jr., LPA, ABA, ATP, MBA

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    [00:00:44] Whitney Owens:

    [00:00:47] Whitney Owens: Hello, friends. Glad to have you here with me today. This is podcast number 80 working it. We have Ralph coming on the show and he's going to talk about managing your finances. He is a accountant and also a faith based person. And so it's nice to kind of have that conversation about managing our money, but also managing it from a Christian perspective.

    [00:01:09] Whitney Owens: Before we get into the episode, I just wanted to kind of give a little bit of information about a retreat I just held. So A couple of weeks. Well, really it was last week. I'm about to say a couple of weeks ago, but a couple of weeks ago, when you hear this episode, I went to Atlanta and David Sturgis hosted an event at his practice.

    [00:01:27] Whitney Owens: And we did consulting for group practice owners. It was wonderful. What I love about retreats is the depth that we can go into and getting very involved in people's practices and in there and helping them just meet those goals, meet those needs. I love the summit. We do that in the fall and it's great, but there's not a lot of time to really dive deep into what's going on in our businesses and to really have that level of connection, at least with me, because I'm hosting an event and there's a lot of people there, but we do a retreat.

    [00:02:01] Whitney Owens: It's a little slower pace. It's really focusing in on our goals. So this retreat was specifically for group practice owners that want to work on systems processes. And so we spent a lot of time working on client conversions, client retention, creating dashboards, delegation, profitability as we see clients and for our therapists.

    [00:02:22] Whitney Owens: It was great. We also had a lot of fun. Fun, because last practice is about having fun. We went and did some private karaoke, which, yeah, that means we rented out our own room and did karaoke. So my heart is happy anytime that I am singing, but there was no forcing people to sing, but I'll just be real.

    [00:02:40] Whitney Owens: Everybody's saying because it was awesome. So we had a really good time. And this just reminded me of kind of talking to you a little bit about what is wise practice. And I think it's important to come back to this because I can get on here on the mic and say, oh, here's this thing we're doing or that thing we're doing.

    [00:02:56] Whitney Owens: And it becomes complicated. I want to simplify it. So think of the wise practice community kind of as, as a funnel. In regards to how you enter and how you become more part of the community. So having the free resources is great. And then we have some paid resources as you go through beyond that. The wise practice membership key was created because.

    [00:03:22] Whitney Owens: Faith based practice ownership is different and lonely at times. We are practice owners, so that can be challenging, but making faith a part of the work that we do, part of our decision making, a part of how we run our business, and so taking those components and making them a part of how you do it is important.

    [00:03:42] Whitney Owens: And you want to be able to connect with people that are doing that. You want to get coaching that supports that and moving forward. So wise practice is about a community. Together, as we move towards our common goal of sharing God in the world and helping one another in that process through the work we do.

    [00:03:59] Whitney Owens: And so I offer free resources because I want to help you guys out like the podcast. You can get information every single week that I'm going to put out. I've had people tell me, maybe you should consider every other week. And I have. But I also am like, you know what, when you say to me, Hey, I heard this on the podcast and it changed the way I run my practice or it gave me the encouragement I needed to keep going.

    [00:04:20] Whitney Owens: My heart is so full because I helped you and God worked in you. And that's the whole reason I did the podcast. So please reach out and tell me those things. I love hearing them. That could be an email with practice consulting dot com, or just writing a review on whatever podcast platform you listening to and letting me know how the podcast impacts you.

    [00:04:40] Whitney Owens: And then I have an email list. So, through the email list, you're going to get information to help you grow your practice. You're going to hear experiences for me getting resources. If you're not on the email list. Go to wisepractisconsulting. com, download the PDF or, uh, or hit the link to get a PDF for not marketing and networking with churches, and you can grab that.

    [00:05:00] Whitney Owens: I also have a free Facebook community. It is called WisePractice, just to make sure you understand Facebook is free. I'm not fully involved. It doesn't include all the aspects we have in the membership community, but that is a free resource for you to connect with other faith based practice centers. So you can go to my website and get that link as well.

    [00:05:18] Whitney Owens: And then if you're wanting to become more part of the community, it's really within the last practice membership community, which we just closed the doors to recently. You probably heard about that on the podcast interviews in April. Uh, feel free to reach out to me if you have questions about that program, but it allows people to connect with one another.

    [00:05:35] Whitney Owens: We meet live every week. On zoom, so that we can help each other grow our practices and I do a teaching, I bring in experts and then there's courses. You can take on your own special discounts, such as to the summit and working with other resources that are associated with practice building. There are accountability groups that meet every other Monday, and you're put in a group with people in your same phase of practice.

    [00:05:58] Whitney Owens: So, think of the last practice membership community is kind of an entry level into becoming a part of the last practice member. Like last practice membership is part of becoming a part of the last practice community. Currently, the cost is only 89 a month and it's a monthly fee. You can drop it at any time if you don't feel like it's helping you because.

    [00:06:14] Whitney Owens: I don't want people in the community don't find it helpful. So that's a little bit about that part of the membership community and then kind of come down the funnel. You can do mastermind groups within wise practice consulting. You can do individual consulting with 1 of our last practice consultants.

    [00:06:30] Whitney Owens: So you have opportunities and then the retreat again. It's that more intimate experience. The summit is a bigger event. I have a goal. Of everyone that's part of the membership community coming to that summit, because that is our event that we come together in person and being on zoom. It is great. But there's something about being in person.

    [00:06:51] Whitney Owens: That's so special. Right? I, I constantly am reminded of the passage in Psalm 133, how good and pleasant it is when brothers dwell together in unity. And that's what I think about with this community. So if you are interested in being a part of all this. Please just reach out, send me an email. I personally respond to every email, Whitney at wise practice consulting.

    [00:07:13] Whitney Owens: com. And I'd love for you to consider coming to the summit. It is a way to meet people. I know it can be intimidating if you listen to the podcast and you're thinking, I don't know these people. Look, if you don't know us, come get to know us, you will love it. And everyone's really friendly, really nice. And if you don't want to come alone, then don't grab one of your practice center friends and come with them.

    [00:07:35] Whitney Owens: Make sure that you are there. Last year, I think about actually, uh, Lana was on a podcast episode. The last one in April that you're going to hear, she came to the summit last year. She didn't know anybody. And I just always think that takes guts. I don't know if I could go to an event and not know anyone, but she knew she wanted.

    [00:07:54] Whitney Owens: To grow her practice, she knew that faith was important to her and she wanted to meet other practice center. So she brought her husband to Savannah and she thought to herself. Well, even if this thing stinks, because she wasn't really sure how it's going to go. I got my husband here and we're getting a vacation.

    [00:08:06] Whitney Owens: Right? So she showed up. I actually ended up meeting her the 1st night because she was right there and I didn't know her and I went and introduced myself. We connected and then she stayed for the entire event. Made some great connections. It was through a connection at the event. She started her own course and then it was through the event that her and I connected and we started doing some individual consulting and she started her group practice and so she actually, I'm totally talking about her without her knowing, but she totally just hired her 1st person in our group practice.

    [00:08:37] Whitney Owens: Super proud of her. And I just look back and I think, wow, if she had chosen not to come to the summit, all the things that wouldn't have happened. And now she's got these connections with faith based practice centers that when she has struggles, or she just wants to share an encouraging thing going on, she's got a place to do that.

    [00:08:53] Whitney Owens: So I appreciate you listening to the podcast. And if you're not a part of these communities, please become a part. You don't have to do it alone and we can give you the resources to get there. So that's a little bit about the last practice membership community and last practice and what it's all about.

    [00:09:09] Whitney Owens: So thank you again for listening to this podcast. There's a lot of other things you could listen to and you choose to be here with me. Please share it with your friends or other practice centers that you think would benefit. Now we're going to jump into the episode because I know you're looking for how to better manage your money and your finances and your practice since now you're going to hear how to do it.

    [00:09:26] Whitney Owens: Hi, I'm Whitney Owens. I'm a group practice owner and faith based practice consultant. And I'm here to tell you that you can have it all. Want to grow your practice? Want to grow your faith? Want to enjoy your life outside of work?

    [00:09:40] Whitney Owens: You've come to the right place. Each week on the Wise Practice Podcast, I will give you the action steps to have a successful faith based practice while also having a good time. Now let's get started.

    [00:09:51] Whitney Owens: Hello, friends, and welcome back to the wise practice podcast on today's episode. I have Ralph is step. He is a highly accomplished professional with a diverse background in finance, accounting, technology, and entrepreneurship as the principal at Psyche management group, Incorporated. He has demonstrated exceptional leadership and expertise in various roles throughout his career.

    [00:10:36] Whitney Owens: Uh, Ralph, thanks for coming on the show today.

    [00:10:38] Ralph V. Estep: Oh, you're welcome. I appreciate you having me on the show.

    [00:10:40] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, why don't, before we get going, you share a little bit about yourself, your background, your family, what you like to do for fun, just so people can get to know you better.

    [00:10:48] Ralph V. Estep: Absolutely. So I always say that I'm a accountant.

    [00:10:52] Ralph V. Estep: I'm an author. I'm a farmer. I raised black Angus cows here on a farm here in Delaware. 24 years this September. I've got two children, one of which is 23 in May and my other is 26. My oldest son is in the U. S. Coast Guard serving in Galveston. So that, and I grew up in accounting, you know, my dad has an accounting practice.

    [00:11:13] Ralph V. Estep: So I tell people I've been doing accounting since I was about six.

    [00:11:17] Whitney Owens: That's awesome. I actually always thought I'd enjoy being an accountant. I like think numbers are lots of fun,

    [00:11:24] Ralph V. Estep: but we consider ourselves engineers with a personality.

    [00:11:28] Whitney Owens: I love that. That's a great boy. I'm going to tell my account at that one.

    [00:11:31] Whitney Owens: That was good. That's great. That's great. All right. And then you have a faith based background kind of with the work you do, correct?

    [00:11:38] Ralph V. Estep: Absolutely. You know, I'm a member of Baptist Church here in Middletown, Delaware, but I've always grown up, you know, I had my salvation when I was 13 and it's, it's the character of who I am.

    [00:11:49] Ralph V. Estep: And, you know, one of the things I talk about in my book and I talk about in my podcast is that you don't have to check your Christianity at the door when you go into the workforce. A lot of people think you've got to do that, but you don't it's who you are. It's what makes you up It's what your character is all about and that's kind of what i've tried to do in my life You know people know me when they come into my accounting office.

    [00:12:09] Ralph V. Estep: I have an office here on the farm I give away bibles in the lobby You know, they may not ask about christianity, but they're sure going to hear about it And I don't beat them over the head with it It's not my intention, but I consider this my mission field and if it's my mission field then guess what i'm going to try to be You know that person for them that plants those seeds You

    [00:12:29] Whitney Owens: I love how you said it like that.

    [00:12:30] Whitney Owens: I was even thinking about that yesterday when I was at church thinking like the work I do and helping faith based therapists and helping clients, that is my church. Right. That's where I do ministry.

    [00:12:42] Ralph V. Estep: Absolutely. And I think more people need to realize that your mission field is, is where you are. It's, you know, it's where it's wherever you are, it's whatever your, whatever your profession is, that can be your mission field.

    [00:12:54] Ralph V. Estep: And you've got to look for opportunities to sow those seeds.

    [00:12:58] Whitney Owens: Most definitely. So you've been an accountant pretty much your whole life, huh?

    [00:13:03] Ralph V. Estep: Absolutely. Like I said, I grew up in this. I graduated from the university of Delaware. Then I went on to get my master's degree. I started my own practice. In 2005. So it's coming up on 20 years being on my own practice.

    [00:13:15] Ralph V. Estep: Also worked as the executive vice president at a credit union. I ran a law firm. I've done a whole bunch of different stuff, worked in a software company, but now I've been in private practice now for almost 20 years and I really enjoy what I do. Um, I enjoy helping people. So if I can help one person, then, then I've checked my box for today.

    [00:13:35] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Hey, that's a, that's a very good way to think about it. So today we're going to talk about what does it mean to manage your money or your finances from a Christian perspective, which I think is super important for Christian practice owners. So what are the first things that you kind of have to say about that?

    [00:13:51] Ralph V. Estep: Well, I wrote a book about this called Mastering Your Finances. And in that book, I talk about, you know, first thing you need to do, whether you're a Christian or a non Christian, is you need to know where your money's going. It's all about assessment. It's all about knowing where your money's going. But as a Christian, I think you've got a little bit extra to do.

    [00:14:07] Ralph V. Estep: And that is, you have a stewardship. You know, what you've been given here is not yours. You've been entrusted with it. So you have to steward those resources. And God's looking at you and saying, you know, how are you using those resources, Ralph? So I think that's a real key important thing. So if you're a Christian person, I think you've got like an extra layer for lack of a better way of saying it.

    [00:14:28] Ralph V. Estep: I think there's, there's more expected from you. There's a stewardship mentality that you have to, you have to, and you have to be transparent. You know, one of the things that's interesting in my practice is people proclaim to be a Christian. And they want to come in and tell me how they're going to cheat on their taxes.

    [00:14:43] Ralph V. Estep: You know, how they're going to end up paying the least amount of taxes. Well, that's great. I'll help you pay the least amount of taxes, but I'm not going to let you go to tax evasion. I'm not going to let you go down a road that, you know, it just defies your Christian faith. There's so many people that get stuck on that.

    [00:14:58] Ralph V. Estep: It's so easy to get corrupted when it comes to money. So as a Christian, I think it's really important to know that, you know, you have to have transparency, but the key is that stewardship.

    [00:15:09] Whitney Owens: Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, looking at what are the things Jesus talked about the most on almost money because it is so corrupt.

    [00:15:16] Whitney Owens: Right. And then, um, your comment about taxes, like it have been any more clear, give to Caesar what Caesars.

    [00:15:24] Ralph V. Estep: Well, that's a fact, right? And you don't give them to God, what is God's, you know, that's the second step to that.

    [00:15:31] Whitney Owens: Yeah. And the

    [00:15:32] Ralph V. Estep: discouraging part of me is I have people that come in and let's just say they're not business people, just ordinary tax people.

    [00:15:36] Ralph V. Estep: They come in, you know, Oh, Ralph, you know, I gave a lot to charity this year. I said, okay, what does that look like? Well, you know, I gave 200. Well, that's fantastic. You made 200, 000. I don't think you're quite hitting the tithing barrier there. Are you? So that's another part of that. You know, if to whom much is given, much is expected, and if, if you want to be a Christian and honor your finances, then you've got to honor tithing, you know, support your church.

    [00:16:01] Ralph V. Estep: If you don't have a local church, find one. If you can't find one, then find charitable organizations that will, will, will help you reach. I just recorded my podcast. It'll play next Sunday. It talks about that. It's called giving it to God. He gives it to you. He lets you use it. So you've got an opportunity, you've got an obligation to use it for his kingdom.

    [00:16:22] Whitney Owens: Mm hmm. Yeah. Can you talk some more about stewardship? What do you mean when you use that word?

    [00:16:28] Ralph V. Estep: What I mean by that is you using your resources wisely, making wise decisions, not, you know, squandering your resources. The thing I see every day, and I see this every day in my practice, I do a ton of financial counseling.

    [00:16:41] Ralph V. Estep: People have no clue where their money goes. And they get to the end of the month and they're like, oh, we can't afford to pay this, we're running up our credit cards. I just recorded an episode today on credit card debt. Do you realize that almost 50 percent of the U. S. population is bringing credit card debt over from the previous month?

    [00:16:57] Ralph V. Estep: That's not good stewardship. Cause interest rates continue to increase the average interest rate on the credit cards over 20 percent now. And if you are not stewarding your resources, then how can you, you know, if you're not doing the right things for yourself, how are you ever going to bless somebody else?

    [00:17:14] Ralph V. Estep: So stewardship is all about making wise financial decisions. Well, how do you do that? Well, first of all, you got to define where your money's going. You'd be shocked how many people come into me and I'll say to them, look for the next 30 days. I want you to write down every dollar and where it's going.

    [00:17:29] Ralph V. Estep: They look at me like I'm, like I'm crazy and then they'll come in 30 days later and I say, Ralph, that was a really cool exercise. We had no clue how much we were spending on Starbucks and I'm not picking on Starbucks or how much we were spending at Dunkin Donuts is a big one here or how much we were spending on eating out or all those things.

    [00:17:46] Ralph V. Estep: I had one client come in, husband and wife were both playing for paying for a Netflix subscription and neither one of them realized the other one was paying for it. Well, they were paying for it twice. But it's that old adage of what gets measured gets done. So that's the first step. And then part of that stewardship is having a budget, you know, and saying, okay, here's what I'm going to do.

    [00:18:04] Ralph V. Estep: I'm going to pay God first. If you have a Christ centered budget, what that means is that you pay Christ first because he's given it all to you. It's not yours. You have to steward those resources. There's a, it talks about in the Bible, I don't remember the exact passage of it, but you know, he gave. Uh, this one, this much, I gave this one this much.

    [00:18:23] Ralph V. Estep: And one of the people said, well, yeah, I didn't do anything with it. I didn't invest it in crazy. Wait a minute. You have a job. Your job is to grow that your gut, your job is to steward that. And maybe I've not done a good job of defining it, but I feel like stewardship is making sure that you're doing the best with what you've been given.

    [00:18:39] Whitney Owens: Yeah. That's the parable of the talents. I think that you're referring to.

    [00:18:42] Ralph V. Estep: Absolutely. That's exactly right. Yeah.

    [00:18:45] Whitney Owens: Yeah, I mean, something I think about, and I'd love to kind of get your thoughts on this. Yeah, I run a group practice. I have 14 therapists that work for me and a couple of admin staff. And so I definitely think about tithing, you know, and I, I, I actually tithe out of my personal money, you know, when I pay myself and then I tithe that my husband's actually a pastor.

    [00:19:03] Whitney Owens: So. Oh, excellent. That's like a whole nother topic of like, that's a whole nother discussion. My husband works.

    [00:19:09] Ralph V. Estep: I got several clients that are pastors. So I get that. That's a whole nother level of discussion.

    [00:19:14] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Yeah. But I feel like it's important. So we, we give to that. Um, but then as a business owner, I try to think about how can I give.

    [00:19:23] Whitney Owens: Two people out of my, you know, what God has given me. And sometimes giving doesn't look like here's, you know, a hundred dollars and I'm going to give it to this. Sometimes it's offering a sliding scale to our clients or being involved in a fundraising event, or some of it is we give our time, we give our energy, you know, all those kinds of things.

    [00:19:43] Whitney Owens: So it can look a little different as business owners, um, how we do that.

    [00:19:48] Ralph V. Estep: Absolutely. And you know, one of the things I mentioned in my podcast, like I said, recorded yesterday was that. You know, giving doesn't mean money necessarily, you know, it means giving your time, giving service offering. And it's why I do the podcast for an example, I said this to people, this is my mission field.

    [00:20:04] Ralph V. Estep: I don't ask for money. I don't ask you to send me anything. I don't ask you to buy anything. I say, look, if I can help you, if I can help one person, you can do the same thing in your practice. Let's say you have somebody come into your practice and they just can't afford to pay you. Well, as a business person, I'm going to tell you what, that's not a good person to take.

    [00:20:22] Ralph V. Estep: Right. But as a Christian, you know, maybe you say, look, I'm going to grab so many people a year and say, look, this is going to be, you know, my pro bono for lack of a better term, or I'm going to charge them half price. And the thing is, you know, we want our businesses to prosper, but if you're cheating God, why is he going to let you prosper?

    [00:20:43] Ralph V. Estep: And if somebody comes through the door and says, look, I really need help and you turn them away because they don't have the money to pay you is the message that you're sending. Because my truthfully, I truly believe that when you help others, you're blessed 10 times over. I can see it in my own practice.

    [00:21:03] Ralph V. Estep: I've had people come in. Like for tax work, as an example. And they'll say to me, Ralph, you know, I'm really struggling right now. I'm a single mom. I really can't afford to pay you this fee. I could pay you half. I could pay you half later. I said, no, here's what I want you to do. Pay me half. Take that other half and take your kids out to do something, do an activity or something like that.

    [00:21:21] Ralph V. Estep: Well, guess what happens? The next day I get three more clients. You tell me God's not involved in that. Absolutely. He is. And he's going to reward that. It might not be immediate and it might not be what you expect, but I think he's rewarded in that. So I hope that answers your question.

    [00:21:37] Whitney Owens: No, I think that's, I think that's great.

    [00:21:39] Whitney Owens: And, um, Yeah, I mean, I definitely think there's something to be said with us. Also just sensing the spirit, like, how is God asking us, like, especially as therapists, we have all these clients knocking on our doors, needing a lot of help. We can't possibly help all of them. So like being really wise about, Hey, I helped some of them at a discount or a sliding scale.

    [00:21:59] Whitney Owens: And then I have others that I refer out to another place that maybe does have better funding, you know, like nonprofits in the area, they can take on a little bit more sometimes than what we can do. And just being able to like really come together as a community. You know, to help meet the needs of these clients.

    [00:22:14] Ralph V. Estep: Yeah, and the thing is you've got to be successful in your business to support your family. So you can't just say, well, I'm going to be, you know, I'm going to do everything for free because that just doesn't make any sense either. And that's why I said, if you're a good steward of your resources, if you're being effective, if you're being wise in your decisions, then that will afford you opportunities to do more things.

    [00:22:34] Ralph V. Estep: And like you said, You know, maybe you refer them to a local church that might have a pastor that does counseling. I know at a church we used to go to, they had a pastoring, uh, excuse me. Yeah. A counseling pastor. And that's what he did. He met with people who were having relationship issues or any of those things and it was free.

    [00:22:51] Ralph V. Estep: So maybe you have to look to the community. And I think that's a great thing to look at. Absolutely. But you can't put yourself in the poor house to do it.

    [00:22:57] Whitney Owens: Yeah, and I think it's a hard line there, right? It's a hard line. And as therapists, we tend to give too much just to be honest, like, that's why we went into this field.

    [00:23:07] Whitney Owens: And so I'm always having to remind people. Hey, like. The reason that you're not able to pay your debt off is because you're giving too much at your job. And so it's, it's, it is definitely that fine line to walk. And I think it all goes back to our hearts. Like, where are our hearts and our giving and where our hearts about our money.

    [00:23:24] Ralph V. Estep: Yeah. And it's all about your treasure, right? Where your heart is, your treasure is, right?

    [00:23:28] Whitney Owens: Yeah. And that's so

    [00:23:29] Ralph V. Estep: true. But you have to take care of you first.

    [00:23:32] Whitney Owens: Mm hmm. You've

    [00:23:33] Ralph V. Estep: got to do that. And you've got to pray about it. You've got to say, listen, Lord, what is it you'll have me to do? And if you shut up long enough.

    [00:23:41] Ralph V. Estep: He'll speak to you, but that's the problem. See, we, we like to talk, we like, we like to talk about, we're going to do this and we're going to do that. And God's laughs at us because he's like, if you'd listen for a second, I'm going to give you some good, you know, I pray about wisdom to me. That's the key.

    [00:23:55] Ralph V. Estep: God, give me the wisdom. What does this look like? But so many people don't shut up long enough to listen.

    [00:24:01] Whitney Owens: So is there some kind of proverb about man makes his plans and the Lord laughs at him or something like that? If

    [00:24:07] Ralph V. Estep: it's not a proverb, it's definitely needs to be right. I'm not trying to add to the Bible, but it's the truth though, isn't it?

    [00:24:12] Ralph V. Estep: We make our plans and God laughs because he's got a predestined plan for us. If we're living our purpose, guess what we're living our purpose, then God's got a plan for you. He's going to put people in front of you that need you. And he's going to put people in front of you. You need them. And I can imagine I've never done counseling.

    [00:24:30] Ralph V. Estep: Although I'll tell you in my practice, I feel like a counselor. Someday I say to my clients, sometimes let me take my accounting hat off and put my counseling hat on because it all intersects. Doesn't it? Because it sure does have financial problems. Your marriage can be a wreck. How many times do we see that's the I truly believe that's the biggest cause of most marital problems is finance Yeah, we'll put people through all kinds of premarital counseling to talk about this and talk about that But do we pull each other's credit reports?

    [00:25:02] Ralph V. Estep: Do we pull each other's budgets and say, look, where do you spend your money? Because that's going to make or break a marriage. I see it every day. And if you don't invest in that, if you don't take the time to look at that, so I would say, you know, as a Christian counselor, you know, maybe that's one of the things you need to broach with your, with your clients is like, look, you know, maybe you need to look at your finances.

    [00:25:21] Ralph V. Estep: Maybe that's an area that's causing stress.

    [00:25:25] Whitney Owens: What's definitely a big part of the business consulting. I do. I mean, it's number 1, you know, let's look at that money and what's happening here. And it's all the things you said. They have no idea where they're putting it or they're putting it into multiple things.

    [00:25:35] Whitney Owens: They don't need, um, they're not saving for taxes, which as a business owner is huge. You know, um, people don't prepare for that, especially as you grow your group practice. You know, your income level is increasing. And so your tax payoff. It's hot.

    [00:25:53] Ralph V. Estep: Yeah. And have they created the entity that works best to save them taxes?

    [00:25:58] Ralph V. Estep: Because so many people don't want to invest in people like me. You know, they don't want to set aside money and go meet with somebody like me. I meet with people all over the world because zoom has opened up these doors and I can meet with people and say, look, here's how it's structured. Now there's a better way to do this.

    [00:26:13] Ralph V. Estep: There's a better tax structure. You know, I started the beginning by saying, I don't want to do tax evasion, but I will sure beat the doors of tax avoidance down because that's legal. And there are things I can do to help these practice people who have set up these businesses and maybe they're set up as a sole proprietorship and they need to be an S corp or they're set up as a sole proprietorship.

    [00:26:31] Ralph V. Estep: They need to be an LLC. Well, why do you say that Ralph? Because there are ways to save on taxes that are appropriate and legal, but people don't take the time to invest to figure out what those are. And then they go to see their tax guy at the end of the year. And to be blunt, my clients who come in at the end of the year, it's not much I can do for them.

    [00:26:47] Ralph V. Estep: I can put the things on the paper, but that's not what a value is. The values in that tax planning, that tax plan that goes on throughout the year. You know, I'll say to my clients in October, November, let's look at your year to date financials. Where do things stand? Well, it looks like you're going to owe some money.

    [00:27:01] Ralph V. Estep: So maybe it's time to make some investments, maybe it's time to buy some things. Maybe it's time to set up a retirement plan. How many people have retirement plans? Not a lot of therapists. That's right. And we live in a world where, guess what? Define benefit plans like your mom and dad had, working at Chrysler or working at, you know, one of these plants.

    [00:27:19] Ralph V. Estep: They worked for 30 years and then when they retired, they got a check every month. Guess what, folks? That's not happening anymore. Your retirement is what you put into it. And if you think you're going to live on Social Security, You're going to be in trouble. So imagine people in your field as well. You know, they got to start thinking about retirement plans.

    [00:27:34] Ralph V. Estep: You know, do you set up a solo 401k plan? Do you set up a SEP plan? There's all kinds of things out there. You just have to do it. And that's part of stewardship as well. You have to realize you're not going to be able to work every day of your life. Now, maybe you will, I don't know, but at some point you'd hope you'd be able to retire.

    [00:27:50] Ralph V. Estep: I see that with pastors all the time to be, to be honest, a lot of pastors just don't plan for retirement and that's a sad thing. And then, you know, they looked at the, I've dealt with a couple of pastors in their eighties and I say to them, why are you still doing this? Well, Ralph, I didn't really set aside for retirement and that's just sad.

    [00:28:07] Ralph V. Estep: It's sad, but no one has pulled them aside and said, Hey, and the problem is a lot of them opt out of social security, which even makes it more complicated.

    [00:28:14] Whitney Owens: That's like part of it, I think. That's a good part of it, you know, and if they've not

    [00:28:18] Ralph V. Estep: put aside for, for retirement, they've not done the traditional 401k thing or the SEP plan, but anyway, I didn't mean to go down a rabbit hole there, but I'm just, that's all part of the stewardship part.

    [00:28:27] Ralph V. Estep: You know, you, you got to steward your research, you got to plan for the next time you can't just plan for today. You don't live for today. That's good as a Christian. Like I don't want to live in fear, but I also have to plan.

    [00:28:39] Whitney Owens: Definitely. Definitely. Well, Ralph, a lot of practice owners that are probably listening are in debt because graduate school is expensive for therapists and a lot of therapists don't make a lot of income until they really grow, you know, and can really raise their rates because we can only charge so much and especially therapists that are on insurance panels have a solo practice.

    [00:29:00] Whitney Owens: It's hard, you know, to, and they do that to help these clients. I'm curious if you have any thoughts about kind of what would you say to someone who's bootstrapping, working hard and has all this debt from graduate school?

    [00:29:12] Ralph V. Estep: It's hard. I mean, it's the truth. I mean, I look at what graduate school costs now and I say, well, how do you expect people to ever recover that?

    [00:29:19] Ralph V. Estep: Yeah, it's just true. And the problem is, and I don't want to pick, you know, I want to throw darts at a dartboard, but here, but here's the problem. Colleges have figured it out. Well, they can get loans for it. So we'll just hike tuition up. We'll hike tuition up. We'll hike tuition up. And at some point, like, what are you paying for?

    [00:29:37] Ralph V. Estep: I wish I had a magic, you know, trick that I could say, okay, do this, this, and this. But you know what? The problem is you're just gonna have to figure it out. You're gonna have to pay those bills back. You take time, you do it, you build your practice. I get it. I've got some physician clients that owe five, six, seven hundred thousand dollars in student loans.

    [00:29:54] Ralph V. Estep: You know, it's like a triple mortgage payment for some people. And they'll say to me, Ralph, you know, I can't get ahead doing this. I said, I get it. I get it. I don't know what the solution is. I mean, as a country, we can't just forgive all the student debt. That's not going to work, you know, so I wish I had a good answer.

    [00:30:09] Ralph V. Estep: The only thing I can say is, you know, again, pray about it, you know, put it into your budget, figure out how can we start paying? The good thing about student loans is they're usually low interest rate, which is a positive. That's one good thing. But yeah, it's a problem. I, I, I wish I had a magic, you know, way to do, here we go.

    [00:30:25] Ralph V. Estep: It's gone, but I don't have that.

    [00:30:28] Whitney Owens: Definitely. Well, and what about practice owners who are growing? So maybe thinking about purchasing office space, um, because that's a huge financial investment for your business. You have any recommendations or thoughts about that?

    [00:30:40] Ralph V. Estep: Yeah, I think you really need to have a budget and you need to plan what that looks like.

    [00:30:43] Ralph V. Estep: And the thing I see about clients that go into new business, especially if they're building a new building or they're, or they're fitting out tenant space, a lot of people don't realize when you go rent space, you get a vanilla shell, they call it, you get four walls and a concrete floor. And you've got to think about, okay, what am I, what else am I going to need?

    [00:30:58] Ralph V. Estep: And people don't have any concept of the budget for that. And I've seen a lot of businesses fail because of that. Do you know concept of what does furniture cost? What does utilities cost? You know, what, what are the other costs I'm going to have? So I think you've got to look at it. You've got to enlist the support.

    [00:31:12] Ralph V. Estep: I call it a team, a dream team, right? You've got to have a good attorney. Somebody that's going to negotiate contracts with you. You've got to have a good insurance agent, someone that's going to make sure your butt is covered. Right. Cause there's a lot of that kind of crazy stuff that goes on a good accountant and probably a good coach.

    [00:31:28] Ralph V. Estep: You know, someone who's been down that road before, because guess what? Coaches have made mistakes. That's why they coach now because they know how to avoid those mistakes. And if they can help you through that process, so you don't have to make the same mistakes they've made, then you're going to be that much better.

    [00:31:43] Ralph V. Estep: But you have to look at it with open. You got to look at it wide open. You know, you got to realize. When you go into your own space, it's going to cost you, but you've got to plan for that, and that's the whole thing. Budget, plan, have a contingency. What does that look like? Most people go into it like, wow, I've grown, I've grown.

    [00:31:59] Ralph V. Estep: You know, there's no room for me, I want to bring on another counselor. There's not enough waiting room space. Yeah, but you know what, sometimes you've got to be uncomfortable for a while before you take that next step. Right? I mean, seriously, that's the truth. You know, how many times do you have to work extra hours?

    [00:32:15] Ralph V. Estep: How many times do you have to do more? You know, and you're right. I mean, at some extent, you know, at some point, if you're taking insurance, like, you're, you're restricting how much you can charge, how much you're going to collect. I don't know. I've seen I've seen a lot of people going to concierge practices with this kind of stuff.

    [00:32:29] Ralph V. Estep: I think that's a very good plan to go to. I think you don't burn yourself out as much. I personally use a concierge physician. I think it's great. But, but I think you have to be ready for that growth and the thing is, I mean, if you add employees and you, you know what I'm talking about, you add in payroll costs, you're adding, you know, payroll taxes, you're adding worker's comp, you're adding all these things.

    [00:32:49] Ralph V. Estep: You've got to be aware of what those things are before you jump into them and proforma those out. And that's where somebody like myself can help you with that and say, okay, Ralph, here's what I'm fixing to do. You know, what, what do I need to do to make this work?

    [00:32:59] Whitney Owens: Hmm. Well, you're preaching my language. I mean, these are the mistakes.

    [00:33:02] Whitney Owens: I see people starting their group practice. They pay their people too much, not thinking about all the stuff you just said. And then they also get more office space than they need. You know, and, uh, I, at one point had six therapists in two offices, it was crazy house, but it worked until I could get more space, you know, and it was allowed to save more money for that.

    [00:33:22] Ralph V. Estep: And that's the thing. You have to go into it with the idea, like you may need to be uncomfortable. It's okay. You know, that old adage of you, if you build up, they will come. Well, sometimes you got to wait, you know, you, and that's the thing about prayer too. Like maybe you got to wait. Maybe it's God not ready for you to make that turn yet.

    [00:33:36] Ralph V. Estep: Like you said, you had six therapists working out of two offices. Guess what? You figured it out there, didn't you?

    [00:33:41] Whitney Owens: I sure did. And I kept growing.

    [00:33:42] Ralph V. Estep: Yeah. And that's the key because you can outgrow yourself. I had a client a few years ago and I said to him, I said, you're going to outgrow yourself. And he goes, what does that mean?

    [00:33:49] Ralph V. Estep: I said, you've got so much money going out on the street. Your cashflow is going to be an issue here before long. And sure enough, six months later, he was out of business. Oh. Because he grew too fast. And he wasn't ready for what that looked like. Yeah. And especially in the insurance market. You know, think about that.

    [00:34:05] Ralph V. Estep: How much time does it take to get paid by the insurance company? Well, you're frontin all those wages at the front end for your therapist, right? And you're waitin on that payment from the insurance company. Well, you better have some cash on hand to meet that payroll, to meet those utilities, meet that rental payment.

    [00:34:19] Ralph V. Estep: You know, maybe you're fortunate enough you bought property, which I think is a great thing to do. Make sure you find a good realtor. Make sure you're in the right location, but that's kind of my take on that. You can grow too big. My grandfather used to use this term, you get too big for your britches and it's easy to get that way because we see, we have these grandiose dreams about, Oh, you know, I got to have this great space and I've got to have this huge atrium and boy, this is going to be fancy.

    [00:34:43] Ralph V. Estep: Yes, it will. It'll be beautiful. But are you ready for it? Can you afford it?

    [00:34:48] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, this has been super helpful. Um, Ralph, do you want to share a little bit about your book and kind of how people can get in touch with you?

    [00:34:56] Ralph V. Estep: Sure. Absolutely. The best way to get in touch with me is I have a daily podcast called the Ask Ralph podcast, and that's mastering your finances with a Christian perspective.

    [00:35:02] Ralph V. Estep: It's real easy to find. It's ask Ralph podcast. com. I also have two books. One of which is the first book I wrote last year, is mastering your finances from a Christian perspective. And the second one, this is my real Christian deep dive. And that's called the gospel of entrepreneurship, how to walk with Jesus in your business.

    [00:35:19] Ralph V. Estep: And that book will change your life and it'll change your business. When you realize that you don't have to check your Christianity to do it. You can be who you are and God will reward that and your employees will reward it and your customers are rewarded. So I encourage you to get those books. You can get them on Amazon.

    [00:35:36] Ralph V. Estep: You go to my website, like I said, ASRAELpodcast. com. I also encourage you to subscribe to our podcast. I do it daily. It's about 15 minutes a day. I give you real information that you can put to work. I give you action steps. I don't talk about all kinds of high and mighty garbage. For example, Today's podcast, it releases about PMI insurance.

    [00:35:56] Ralph V. Estep: If you have a mortgage, you're probably paying PMI insurance unless you paid a lot down. Well, how much does that cost me? So I say, Hey, ask Ralph, he'll tell you what it costs you and are there ways to get around that? So I give you practical advice. So I hope that answers your question. That's the best way to get in touch with me.

    [00:36:10] Ralph V. Estep: If you want to schedule a one on one meeting with me, you can go to that ask Ralph podcast. com slash store. You can schedule a consultation with me. I do it through zoom. If you'd like, I meet with people all over the world and I impact them. I can help them, but they got to take the first step.

    [00:36:26] Whitney Owens: That's right.

    [00:36:26] Whitney Owens: That's right. Well, we appreciate you taking the time to help us today. And I know people will be following up with you. And so thank you so much.

    [00:36:33] Ralph V. Estep: I appreciate your time too. And God bless you.

    [00:36:36] Whitney Owens: You too.

    [00:36:59] Whitney Owens: Special thanks to Marty Altman for the music in this podcast. The Wise Practice Podcast is part of the Sitecraft Podcast Network, a collaboration of independent podcasters focused on helping people live more meaningful and productive lives. To learn more about the other amazing podcasts in the network, head on over to sitecraftnetwork.

    [00:37:19] Whitney Owens: com. The Wise Practice Podcast represents the opinions of Whitney Owens and her guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only, and the content should not be taken as legal advice. If you have legal questions, please consult an attorney.


James Marland
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